So beating an aging Frazier is worth beating a versatility of 15 other HWs? Thats what I call heroism par excellence. By the way, the best fighter both of them fought in their second run was Holyfield. Who did significantly better in there ? Beside beeing a legendary moment of boxing, from a rational view, the Moorer right hand was a luck shot after loosing every round of the fight. And others might have taken fat burner to get trimmed. According to some, alot of them took advantage. I did a detailed Liston - Tyson comparison from another point of view here. There is no way to put him ahead of Tyson imho. Less title defenses, shorter knockout streak, no knockout artist pattern in his "data" compared to Mike, loosing early to a bum, less spectacular knockouts, no second title win after prime. All you can give Liston is loosing to a young clay instead of Douglas (PLUS loosing to Marshall), and again a heroism of Patterson compared to Spinks, Thomas, Holmes and so on. https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/rate-mike-tyson-with-another-resume.603860/
I'll read that thread in a minute before I make my mind up on Tyson but Holyfeild is all speculative so therefore it's my opinion in that right. And if I recall correctly Foreman tagged Holyfeild up much more frequently than Holmes. The moorer win is incredible, not luck. He set up 4 punches, 2 missed, 1 was a jab and the other got the KO. An aging Frazier (who was still a champion) coming off two KO's wins and one of the best wins in history is better than anyone Holmes beat. And Foreman did it twice, as well as the Lyle and Norton wins. Regardless off others versatillity there's only 3 heavyweights I'd pick to beat Foreman, and Holmes isn't one of them, nor is Tyson or Holyfeild
This is good. Like not even joking, really good post Primo. But I have to dispute a few points, From what I've read the 3 years he was most likely born in was, 24/26/30, that would make him either 40/38/34. What was Tyson doing at 35, getting Sparked out by a past it Lewis, Liston was getting embarrassed and quitting against a Prime Ali. Listons title run was much shorter than Tyson's. But his pre champion run was better than any Tyson run, Williams and Machen are Better than anyone Tyson beat when he beat them. Also both fought Journeymen in the second careers, Tyson had McNeely and Francis. That is a lot less Than Liston, but on the whole Listons best wins are better than any Tyson win
On judges cards, Holmes did slightly better than Foreman. The Moorer win was landing a right hand out of loosing every round before that happened. Whatever you want to call Moorers chin, thats what happened. It was indeed one of the most legendary moments of boxing. If you think Foreman beats Holmes, you couldn´t be more wrong than that, for almost any thread I know of. Regardsless of their prime or comeback versions. https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/larry-holmes-vs-george-foreman.588415/ https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/expert-opinions-on-holmes-vs-foreman.556995/
Theres only 2 heavyweights (Ali and Chuvalo) with the endurance to take Foreman's punches constantly, which in a fight against Holmes he would consistently land. The Ali fight is not a good example of how to beat Foreman. You need the Defence, speed and Chin to do that and Holmes didn't have enough of either. Foreman's stamina is actually underrated, in Zaire he was angry and fought the worst fight he ever did and that was in extreme conditions. Holmes could jab and run all night, but he'd eventually be caught and finished off, like the Shavers fight but where Holmes gets KO'ed
I wish people would at least spell their names correctly!...... HOLYFIELD FRAZIER I before E ! Rant over.....
Yes you can indeed give Liston age. On the comeback Tyson did beat champion Bruno and Seldon, before loosing three fights with ATGs. Liston couldn´t get the ball rolling on his comeback. Anyway, if you really check Listons resume, its astonishing how thin in really is, relying alot on beating a single fighter. Imho it makes nilch sense to put him ahead of many potential top ten fighters. "Williams and Machen are Better than anyone Tyson beat when he beat them." Not true! Fair, but nevertheless its one title fight compared to 15+ title fights Holmes did win, including the Spinks rematch in most opinions.
You can make a case for both Tyson and Holmes as your making an annoyingly good job at, but How many Holmes wins match up to: Lyle and Fraizer *2, not many imo.
Lyle? It was a life and dead performance of Foreman. So Cooney, Shavers *2, Witherspoon (also very close), Weaver, unbeaten 24-0 Jones, Berbick and maybe more easily match up with the Lyle win. Indeed you can give him Frazier 1 and Norton, who he beat much more convincingly than Holmes did and that strike on Moorers chin. I don´t give him a 22X pounds finished Joe Frazier. That is THREE wins vs 15+ ! Imho no way to put him ahead of Holmes.
1= Joe Louis/Muhammad Ali 3. [Clear daylight] 4-10. Everybody else in any subjective order of my choosing, depending on the day of the week
Yes, sounds like a fair example for all fighters to be judged upon. Age not physical skills should be the criteria Ali was 29 when Frazier took him apart, reports of his decline are somewhat exaggerated,imo.
