Top 10 Mexican fighters of all-time?

1. Julio Cesar Chavez Sr
2. Salvador Sanchez
3. Ruben Olivares
4. Carlos Zarate
5. Juan Manuel Marquez
6. Erik Morales
7. Marco Antonio Barrera
8. Vicente Saldivar
9. Miguel Canto
10. Ricardo Lopez

 

1.) Julio Cesar Chavez
2.) Juan Manuel Marquez
3.) Salvador Sanchez
4.) Erik Morales
5.) Marco Antonio Barrera
6.) Carlos Zarate
7.) Ruben Olivares
8.) Ricardo Lopez
9.) Rafa Marquez
10.) Miguel Canto

I think you could justify an even higher rating for Rafael Marquez, although it doesn't appear that argument would be widely received in this thread. The crop of wins he accumulated at 118 was extremely strong: Mark Johnson (twice), Silence Mabuza (twice), Tim Austin, etc. Throw in the Israel Vasquez wins at 122. Unfortunately he drops points for surrendering to Juan Manuel Lopez.

 

Rafa on? And No Saldivar?

 

Yeah. I think very highly of Marquez. He was extremely impressive to watch live. He was excellent at rebounding from a bad round and he was very dangerous when hurt. And when he was in a state of flow and his offense snapped into gear, he was a terror. Stamina and durability were his weak points, but they weren't deal-breaking liabilities.

In my opinion, Rafa's crop of challengers was very strong, with 'Too Sharp' and Austin both being very underrated nowdays. Clearly Austin was a creep and a loser, but he was a dominant champion who could fight his ass off when Marquez dethroned him. While none of Marquez's individual wins was as good as beating Alfonso Zamora in four rounds or brilliantly outboxing Chucho Castillo, those wins reflected a consistently strong group of fighters over the span of nearly a dozen fights.

As for comparing Saldivar and Marquez directly, I think its essentially a wash comparing Saldivar's first reign to Marqeuz's tenure at 118. And the tie breaker is which you prefer, Saldivar's comeback or Marquez's participation in his 2-2 series with Israel Vasquez which was an all time great rivalry. I take Marquez' side.

 

1. Chavez
2. Saldivar
3. Olivares
4. Sanchez

5. JMM
6. Canto
7. Barrera
8. Morales

9. Zarate
10. Chucho Castillo
11. Rafael Herrera
12. Arizmendi

13. Ricardo Lopez

Off the top of my head. I’m not counting Aurelio Herrera or Manuel Ortiz for obvious reasons. I’m probably forgetting someone obvious.

 

Seeing as he’s in the HOF and Doug Fischer has rammed him down the throats of some seemingly easily led folks, ‘Too Sharp’ is overrated if anything.

 

Also...I just read this properly.

Wow. I never want to read another of your opinions. Anyone who thinks Marquez’s bantam run is comparable to Saldivar’s featherweight run is either winging it having done no research whatsoever, or is related to Rafael Marquez.

You’re on ignore, immediately.

 

The first four can’t be that easy as Saldivar>Sanchez is very easy in itself and you don’t have Saldivar in the top 5.

You also have Saldivar behind Lopez, which is mind boggling even given your admirable openness about your admiration for Finito.

 

Chavez, Saldivar, Sanchez, Olivares and Canto are the top five pretty much inarguably from my point of view with the order being debatable, Zarate just outside them probably with Chucho not much further behind imo. The last three spots are between the likes of Herrera, Casanova, Arizmendi, JMM, Barrera, Morales, Lopez, Medel, Martinez, Espadas Sr, Roman.

Becerra, Macias, Rafa, Zaragoza, Pimentel and Jibaro are outside consideration for me.

No way were any of the Mexi-trio or especially Rafa better or greater than Saldivar, that's madness. Rafa was never even the man at 118 in his day, nobody was; Sahaprom had just as valid a shout and was the more skilled fighter. Austin though a good fighter was ridiculously overhyped by the networks and media and Too-Sharp was faded and undersized. Izzy was a warrior and a credit to the sport but never a great fighter or even an excellent/very good one. Brave and hard hitting but basic skilled, though the series was awesome no doubt.

Saldivar was the undisputed champion in a very strong era and beat Ramos, Winstone x3, Fammo, Legra, Laguna and Seki as well as a number of other contenders. That devastates Rafa's CV and is better than those of Barrera and Morales too, accomplished though they were. Outside of their series with each other and Pac, and Marco's excellent wins over Naz and McKinney, I've never felt that their ledgers have top-class depth in an all-time context. Struggles with the likes of Espadas Jr and Valbuena have been forgotten imo and airbrushed from recent history, and you can't ignore that Barrera made Junior Jones, however dangerous he could be, look like a 122 Hearns and Pac look like a better version of Duran. Marquez and even Morales himself showed how Pac needed to be fought and that he wasn't levels above as the first Pac-Barrera might have indicated.

Marquez is the greatest of the three although on a similar level in terms of all-round talent and ability, despite barely squeezing by the faded version of Barrera. He didn't have the promoter/network-steered, calculated path to the top that Marco and Erik had in comparison; he had to fight his way through the relevant contenders over a number of years without fanfare or preferential treatment and wasn't guided clear of stylistic bananas skins in the way Morales was imo. Still, you can only excuse a man so much for struggling with Chris John and Freddie Norwood even if you thought he was hard done by from the judges. Wonderful aesthetic textbook counter-puncher though he was, he looked crap in those fights with his weaknesses really coming to the fore. Slow feet and struggling a bit when made to lead against guys who stopped him from setting his feet using a fairly rudimentary approach. I rewatched a few stretches of the John fight the other week and realised I'd forgotten how often John made him miss and overextend while lacking the offensive range and commitment to punish him for it. This being said, he did good work against the likes of old Medina, younger Salido, Polo etc. Awkward, tricky guys who not many wanted to face. The Salido win in particular has gained value and traction in the years since. Obviously then you have what many believe was superiority over Pacqiuao and his successful forays far above 126/130 when he was a bit past it, albeit against mostly unspectacular opposition. Very nice wins over Diaz and Katsidis and an impressive display of one punch power over old man Casa, though I actually had him down on the cards at the time of the KO.

 

The previous generations of genuinely excellent Mexicans who were at least on a similar level to Marquez, Barrera and Morales are ridiculously underrated in comparison, ability-wise and achievement wise both. Part of it is probably due to the trio's achievements being fresher in people's minds and the more global nature of coverage and exposure in the internet era that the older guys didn't have. Not the fault of the modern trinity of course.

 

Actually, I could see Marquez haggling for 5th or 6th I suppose. I have Canto a shade above him but it isn't nuts to rate him higher than Miguel or Zarate. I'm biased with Castillo and also rate him a tad higher, but again, it's preference for the era and the fighters Chucho either beat or held his own with.

 

Good lists everyone ...im just happy to see Barrera , Morales and Juan Manuel Marquez getting their just due

 

Yeah you probably should ignore if you're too fragile to handle such a mild disagreement on an internet discussion board...