Top 10 middleweights

I like it. Good list.

I know I'm in the minority on this forum but I have Robinson at no. 1. I think putting Hagler and Monzon 3rd equal is fair - very hard to split them. Hopkins is higher than I've seen on other lists but not unreasonably so.

I always think that the lower half of the middleweight top 10 is going to hugely vary because there isn't an awful lot to choose between any of them.

 

1. Greb
2. Fitzsimmons
3. Robinson
4. Monzon
5. Hagler
6. Langford
7. Ketchel
8. Walker
9. Burley
10. Steele

 

Modern era(beginning 1965ish) only and based purely on H2H(because it's more fun)

1.Roy Jones
2.Carlos Monzon
3.Hopkins/McCallum
5.Gennady Golovkin
6.James Toney
7.Chris Eubank
8.Marvin Hagler
9.Emile Griffith
10.Winky Wright

 

Winky Wright? How? why?

 

Hopkins just about makes my top twelve.Graziano my top 20.
Fitz didn't have much of a talent pool to shine against, so I think he can legitimately be left off of this list.
Lamotta and Tiger would make my top ten so mine would be something like; In no order .

Greb
Robinson
Monzon
Hagler
Ketchel
Tiger
Lamotta
Walker
Steele
Jones Jnr/Zale

 

I don't think they beat everyone below them. It's more who would fair better in a mythical round robin tournament of all the top guyd(not just the top 10). For example he would probably be ranked 25ish but actually think Kelly Pavlik beats GGG

As for those fights I think GGG vs Hagler is 50/50. I think he beats toney though it's a good matchup for GGG.

 

I think H2H he is a nightmare for a lot of guys.

 

1a) Greb 1b) Monzon 3) Hagler 4) Ketchel 5) Hopkins 6) Robinson 7) Walker 8) Fitzsimmons 9) Fullmer 10) Steele

I struggle to separate Greb and Monzon. I know I probably 'should' go with Greb, but the mitigating factors for me are the total lack of footage available of his fights and also the fact that many of his best wins against Middleweight names were over the 160 lb limit and effectively took place at Super-Middleweight. I guess I'm splitting hairs, but Monzon's immaculate record in championship fights, dominance against his peers and the astonishing level of his performances against guys like Benvenuti (I), Briscoe (II) and Valdez (II) are too strongly imprinted in my mind.

Robinson might be a little low for some peoples' liking, but his title record is spotty at 160 lb. Granted, the majority of those fights came after his mini retirement of 1952-55, but I'm not going to give him credit for imaginary results he didn't get. He had the same amount of Middleweight title fights as Monzon and Hagler, but while they were 15-0 and 13-1-1 in them respectively, Robinson was 8-6-1. I think even before his first retirement, guys such as Van Dam and Turpin had shown that he simply wasn't quite as virtuoso at 160 as he'd been at 147 (which is to be expected).

Still, the Valentine's Day Massacre, his performance against Graziano (stunning in every way, that little flash KD aside) and that left hook against Fullmer show that Ray was still something incredibly special as a Middle...Just not quite as special as a Welter.

I think Walker has to be in, as does Fitzsimmons. Depending on my mood on any given day, I could remove Fullmer (albeit I usually find a spot for him, just about) and Steele, and I guess the next guys in the mix would be Nonpareil Dempsey, Tiger, Zale (although his failure to deal with any of the Murderers Row makes me unsure), Nunn, O'Dowd etc.

 

Hopkins is top 5 for me....

Greb
Hagler
Monzon
Hopkins
SRR

Ketchel
Gibbons
Steele
Burley
Lamotta/Tiger