TOP 10 Welterweights of all time

Red, a question for you: what makes Pipino's level of comp superior to Hearns' at welterweight?

A shopworn Clyde Gray, Billy Backus, Harold Weston, Pete Ranzany, Randy Shields, Angel Espada and Miguel Campanino. Hardly a murderers' row.

Fact is Cuevas is a better fighter for Hearns than anyone that Cuevas ever beat for his own resume, and Hearns popped him like a bubble. Absolutely destroyed him with a single punch and he never was the same again.

Hearns has plenty of filler at welterweight (many being past Cuevas victims), but Pipino's reign of terror was over average foes and he simply failed to prove that he had it takes to beat excellent let alone great fighters.

 

Of course. The verdict also had Tito over DLH, Gomez over Lockridge, Lewis drawing Holy, Park beating Jones in the Olympics, Chavez and Ramirez not losing to Whitaker and hundreds of other pitiful examples.

Excellent :good

 

But didnt historians rank Frazier over Foreman back in the 70s? I have those ring magazines from 74, 75 when Ring did a update on Fleischer's top 10.

It seemed a little biased thay had Frazier over Foreman (there was no Foreman) to me but Foreman didnt do that much in the division and likewise, Tommy didnt really do much with his title.

you have to remember that Tommy only held the title barely past a year.

Cuevas' title reign was a lot stronger than Tommy's. Pipino just happened to lose to him.

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

 

Would you on same principles rank Hopkins over Jones at middleweight? Whitaker over Camacho at lightweight? Castillo over Mayweather and Mosley at lightweight?

 

Simple: They were in better shape. Espada was the champ. How much of him do you think Tommy is going to get left with after 3 meetings with Cuevas? And why would anyone want him 3 times? Are you kidding me?

harold had done extremely well against Benitez. I think after Cuevas was done with them that none of them were really suitable as contenders except for Shields.

 

Roy Jones is another of my favorites-a true Sugar Ray but sadly already forgotten. Roy easily defeated Z with one hand but in addition, won 4 titles in legitimate fashion. I fail to see why you would bring up his name.

Camacho never met Pernell

 

Well um, let's see, like Jones against Z , Hearns beat Pipino with one had (make that one punch) and then went on to win plenty of titles in legitimate fashion at higher weights.

Hopkins hung around and fought more fighters at middleweight and hence got a better resume (if we exclude the Jones schooling), even though he was fighting sub par opponents. Likewise, Cuevas has a better resume than Hearns at welterweight (if we exclude the Hearns demolition), even though he was fighting sub bar opponents.

See the similarities? Please don't come back with the fact that Hopkins put people to sleep in the stands whilst Cuevas put them to sleep in the ring - that s NOT what distinguishes the pair. Hopkins was more of a boxer and great at what he did, even if it wasn't as exciting as what Pipino did.

 

No I am speaking about Nelson versus Fenech 1 and Tito versus ODLH that is all. Lewis beat Holyfield for me in the first fight. In fact the 2nd fight was much closer and competitive as a contest. Whittaker clearly beat Ramirez and Jones beat Park.

 

Espadas was the champ but he was nothing more than a good fighter. Weston did ok but still lost imo to Benitez and got schooled in the rematch. Pipino's comp was pretty average on the whole. Hearns fought a lot of Pipino left overs, but then, I hardly think anyone rates the guy for beating the Shields and Grays of the world. His destruction of Cuevas does seem to keep coming up though....

 

Take the discussion about 130 and 135 lbers to another thread. Thank you.

 

I recently made a top 20 welter list, though it was somewhat of a rough draft that I made to get opinions on. If I made a refined version Rodriguez would definately make the top 10.

 

You make 20 defenses, not everyone of your foes are going to be all-time greats. BUT to call them sub par? The majority were legit world class contenders in both their cases.

 

Why? I agree with everything he said. Rodriguez looked the superior fighter not only in their fights, but in the other fights of theirs I've seen and compared as well. His resume may not be quite as stacked, but really, that doesn't mean a goddamn thing when he's winning every fight head to head and the top opponents he did beat were on the same level of most of Griffith's top opponents.

I agree that Rodriguez was better than Griffith, clearly. I also think he was one of the top 5 WW's of the modern era, clearly.