Top 15 middleweights of all time

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Apr 5, 2018.


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  1. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Golovkin? Who couldn’t even beat Canelo?

    Zale is way to high. Never beat the best of his era, drew the color line and ducked the black murders row, padded his record with soft touches....

    Ketchel too low. Knocked out 2 men whom beat Tommy Burns, dominated his era

    Cerdan too high. Ducked the best of his era. Ducked villemain from his own country. Lost to Lamotta. Looks good on film against soft competition

    You Leave off ezzard charles who easily beat a prime charley burley TWICE at 160lb?
     
    SuzieQ49, Apr 6, 2018
    SuzieQ49, Apr 6, 2018
    #31
  2. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Tony Zale belongs nowhere near anyone’s top 10 list when in the greatest middleweight era of all time, he missed out on fighting all the great middleweights and hid behind the color line while Lamotta didn’t.
     
    SuzieQ49, Apr 6, 2018
    SuzieQ49, Apr 6, 2018
    #32
  3. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Monzon doesn't even make the top fifteen?
     
    edward morbius, Apr 6, 2018
    edward morbius, Apr 6, 2018
    #33
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  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Must have forgot him. In a rush. Will edit.
     
    Mendoza, Apr 6, 2018
    Mendoza, Apr 6, 2018
    #34
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    On film Ketchel looks terrible. Cerdan the exact opposite, and high guard pressure fighter. A tank with a lot of power and skills, with some defense Cerdan was. Heck yes I think he beats Ketchel
     
    Mendoza, Apr 6, 2018
    Mendoza, Apr 6, 2018
    #35
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  6. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    An oversight. Fixed it. I do think Klompton has some points on Monzon.
     
    Mendoza, Apr 6, 2018
    Mendoza, Apr 6, 2018
    #36
  7. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Easy to look good on film against a bunch of stiffs...what great fighters of the era near their primes did Cerdan beat?

    Ketchel knocked out two men whom beat Tommy burns
     
    SuzieQ49, Apr 6, 2018
    SuzieQ49, Apr 6, 2018
    #37
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Wait, do you think Golovkin at age 35 didn't beat Canelo, who was busted for PED's and refused to weigh in on the scale on fight night? An answer will tell me everything. GGG won the fight 8-4 in my opinion...past his prime, and in Canelo's absolute prime. The only thing GGG could not beat is Oscar De La Hoya's judges.

    GGG's style slows down with age. He's still going strong at the age of where Hagler and Monzon were long retired. GGG has an all-time middleweight jab, maybe the best chin in the history of the division, a is puncher's puncher. Un-defeated & never floored. Count the title defenses. And avoided in his prime. What more can you ask?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
    Mendoza, Apr 6, 2018
    Mendoza, Apr 6, 2018
    #38
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  9. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Agree 100%
     
    klompton2, Apr 6, 2018
    klompton2, Apr 6, 2018
    #39
  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Since when is GGG far past his prime? What signs of deterioration in his prior fights has he shown?

    I had it 114-114. Canelo outboxed golovkin early then stole the last few rounds. I don’t think Canelo did enough to win, but golovkin allowed Canelo to stay in the fight

    Canelo will win the rematch.

    Funny how you call out Canelo on PED use but turn a blind eye Luis Ortiz being busted for PED use against wilder, and Morrison using PED his whole career


    Golovkin spent his whole career beating up on soft contenders. He never challenged his skills vs a great fighter. Canelo is the closest and fought him on even terms. GGG has questionable defense and allowed Daniel Jacobs to tee off on him all night

    Golovkin never proved himself against a truly great fighter like Andre Ward, who would have exposed the holes in golovkin game

    To rank golovkin top 5 all time is absurd. Who has he ever beat? His resume is very weak
     
    SuzieQ49, Apr 6, 2018
    SuzieQ49, Apr 6, 2018
    #40
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  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    114-114? Get out. You can't score a fight. 80% of the media cards felt GGG won it, and the other 20% were Mexican or had ties to Canelo. A bogus draw.

    The compubox numbers for Canelo vs. GGG. GGG out landed Canelo 218-169 and landed more punches in 10 of 12 rounds! In addition to out landing Canelo, GGG was the aggressor.

    If you were following GGG, you could see he's slowed down. He was much better 31-33, not at age 35 ( 36 in 2 days ), with all of his fights, he's slower.

    How about some score cards on GGG vs Canelo. Read below:

    ****************************************************

    Teddy Atlas --------------------------------> 118-110 GGG
    Unnamed boxing site #1 ------------------> 118-110 GGG
    Jeff Powell (UK Daily Mail) ----------------> 118-111 GGG
    Kelly Pavlik ---------------------------------> 117-111 GGG
    Dave Allen ----------------------------------> 117-111 GGG
    Mookie Alexander (Bloody Elbow) --------> 117-111 GGG
    Brian Campbell (CBS) ---------------------> 117-111 GGG
    Jack Rathborn (Mirror UK) ----------------> 117-111 GGG
    Harold Lederman (HBO) ------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Devon Alexander --------------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Dan Rafael (ESPN) ------------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Al Bernstein -------------------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Bryan Graham (Guardian UK) ------------> 116-112 GGG
    Gareth Davies (UK Telegraph) -----------> 116-112 GGG
    Steve Bunce (BoxNation) ----------------> 116-112 GGG
    Tom Loeffler ------------------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Sergio Martinez ---------------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Amir Khan ---------------------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Matthew Macklin --------------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Steve Lillis (BoxNation) -------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Bob Velin (USA Today) --------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Lyle Fitzsimmons (CBS) -------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Kevin McRae (Bleacher Report) -----------> 116-112 GGG
    Shaun Al-Shatti (MMA Fighting) ----------> 116-112 GGG
    Ryan Frederick (Wrestling Observer) ----> 116-112 GGG
    Patrick Stumberg (MMA Mania) ----------> 116-112 GGG
    Michael Woods (Ring) --------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Nigel Collins (ESPN) ----------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Cliff Rold ----------------------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Bad Left Hook Writer #2 -----------------> 116-112 GGG
    John A. MacDonald (Boxing Monthly) ---> 116-112 GGG
    Ron Lewis (The Times) -------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Daniel Cormier (UFC) --------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Dardan Zenunaj --------------------------> 116-112 GGG
    Kevin Mitchell (Guardian UK) ------------> 116-113 GGG
    Josh Taylor --------------------------------> 116-113 GGG
    Joshua Bautsi -----------------------------> 116-113 GGG
    Matt Christie (Boxing News) -------------> 116-113 GGG
    Barry Jones (BoxNation) -----------------> 116-113 GGG
    Adam Booth -------------------------------> 116-114 GGG
    Jordan Breen (Sherdog) ------------------> 115-112 GGG
    Caleb Truax -------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Kevin Iole (Yahoo) ------------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Gary Locket -------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Will Esco (Bad Left Hook) -----------------> 115-113 GGG
    Phil Murphy (ESPN) -----------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Mike Harris (SI) ---------------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Paul Fontaine (Wrestling Observer) ------> 115-113 GGG
    MMA Brazil ---------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Sean Sheehan (Severe MMA) -------------> 115-113 GGG
    Rob Tatum (Combat Press) ----------------> 115-113 GGG
    Patrick Wyman (Bleacher Report) ---------> 115-113 GGG
    Chavez Jr -----------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Juan Manuel Marquez ----------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Joel Diaz ------------------------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Marc Livitz (SecondsOut) ------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Stephen A. Smith (ESPN) -----------------> 115-113 GGG
    Graham Houston (Boxing Monthly) -------> 115-113 GGG
    Ed Robinson (Sky Sports) -----------------> 115-113 GGG
    Unnamed boxing site #2 ------------------> 115-113 GGG
    Tom Gray (Ring) ---------------------------> 115-114 GGG
    Max Kellerman -----------------------------> Golovkin
    Lennox Lewis ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Shane Mosley ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Austin Trout --------------------------------> Golovkin
    Paulie Malignaggi --------------------------> Golovkin
    Enzo Macarenelli ---------------------------> Golovkin
    Scott Cardle --------------------------------> Golvokin
    Terence Crawford ---------------------------> Golovkin
    Reece Bellotti ------------------------------> Golvokin
    Liam Smith ---------------------------------> Golovkin
    Peter Quillin --------------------------------> Golovkin
    Liam Williams ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Ohara Davies -------------------------------> Golovkin
    Luke Campbell -----------------------------> Golovkin
    Dave Coldwell ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Badou Jack ---------------------------------> Golovkin
    Kevin Kelly (boxer) -------------------------> Golovkin
    Steve Kim -----------------------------------> Golovkin
    Doug Fischer --------------------------------> Golovkin
    Ring TV guy (name?) ----------------------> Golvokin
    Cornelius Bundrage ------------------------> Golovkin
    Gabriel Rosado ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Kal Yafai -------------------------------------> Golovkin
    Julian Williams ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Vanes Martirosyan --------------------------> Golovkin
    Michael Montero ----------------------------> Golovkin
    James Brady (SB Nation) ------------------> Golovkin
    Joe Rogan (UFC) ----------------------------> Golovkin
    Jim Rome (sports broadcaster) ------------> Golovkin
    Kovalev -------------------------------------> Golvokin
    Danny Jacobs -------------------------------> Golovkin
    Murat Gassiev ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Johnny Nelson ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Rosie Perez ---------------------------------> Golovkin
    Lou DiBella ---------------------------------> Golovkin
    Tony Jeffries --------------------------------> Golovkin
    Martin Samuel (UK Daily Mail) -------------> Golovkin
    Joseph Parker ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Bob Arum ----------------------------------> Golovkin
    Fernando Schwarz (Fox Sports Mexico) --> Golovkin
    Sportsbook 1 ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Sportsbook 2 ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Sportsbook 3 ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Sportsbook 4 ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Sportsbook 5 ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Sportsbook 6 ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Sportsbook 7 ------------------------------> Golovkin
    Marcos Villegas (Fight Hub) --------------> Golovkin
    Ana Julaton --------------------------------> Golovkin
    John Buccigross (ESPN) -------------------> Golovkin
    Nonito Donaire -----------------------------> Golovkin
    Leo Santa Cruz ----------------------------> Golovkin
    Fernando Vargas ---------------------------> Golovkin
    Michael Bisping (UFC) ---------------------> Golovkin
    Narhan Gorman ---------------------------> Golovkin
    Lance Pugmire (LA Times) ----------------> 114-114 Draw
    Chris Mannix (Yahoo) ---------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Associated Press --------------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Kenny Porter ------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Roy Jones ---------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Peter Fury ---------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Tommy Hearns ----------------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Joe Cortez ---------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Liam Happe (Yahoo Sport UK) -----------> 114-114 Draw
    Steven Muehlhausen (Sporting News) ---> 114-114 Draw
    Gilbert Manzano (Denver Post) -----------> 114-114 Draw
    Ben Thompson (Fight Hype) -------------> 114-114 Draw
    Brian Kenny (MLB Network) -------------> 114-114 Draw
    Eric Rasken (HBO) -----------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Danny Flexen (British Boxers) -----------> 114-114 Draw
    Kieran Mulvaney (HBO) ------------------> 114-114 Draw
    David Greisman (former writer) ---------> 114-114 Draw
    George Foreman --------------------------> 114-114 Draw (supposedly said)
    Unnamed writer (Unnamed site #3) -----> 114-114 Draw
    Robert Garcia ------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Glen McCrory ------------------------------> 114-114 Draw
    Danny Howard (Boxing Tribune) ---------> 115-114 Canelo
    Bernardo Osuna (ESPN Deportes) --------> 115-114 Canelo
    De La Hoya --------------------------------> 115-113 Canelo - his promoter
    Bernard Hopkins --------------------------> 115-113 Canelo - ties /canelo
    Gilbert Mendoza (President of WBA) -----> 115-113 Canelo
    Coach Anthony ----------------------------> 116-112 Canelo
    Erik Morales -------------------------------> 117-111 Canelo
    Chavez Sr ---------------------------------> Canelo
    Sergio Mora -------------------------------> Canelo

    Notice how most who felt Caenlo won were Mexican, or had ties with him?


    Ortiz ( 38 or 41 ) was old and ill for Wilder. And Wilder barely won it. The fact that you think Wilder is approaching all-time top 15 status at heavyweight, with his razor-thin resume and take shots at GGG's which is full of legitimate top ten opponents is something I can't fully understand.

    I'd have to check, but the list of middleweight who achieved a #1 Ring Magazine pound for pound status has to be a short one. Golovkin did exactly that.

    I guess you have your favorites. I can't change that.
     
    Mendoza, Apr 6, 2018
    Mendoza, Apr 6, 2018
    #41
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  12. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Is Mickey Walker a consensus top 10 among posters here? How about Ketchel? (Guessing no to the latter...)
     
    Russell, Apr 6, 2018
    Russell, Apr 6, 2018
    #42
  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    You must also think Monzon is a modern fighter as you seldom have a nice thing to say about current fighters.
     
    Mendoza, Apr 6, 2018
    Mendoza, Apr 6, 2018
    #43
  14. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    I agree GGG won (as do most in all polls I've seen), but I don't think compubox is that great. Like Malignaggi says it's just people pushing buttons.

    Still I agree GGG outlanded him.
     
    BitPlayerVesti, Apr 6, 2018
    BitPlayerVesti, Apr 6, 2018
    #44
  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Right out landed, and was the aggressor. With no knockdowns, and Canelo covering up often on the ropes, any fair judge picks GGG as the winner. I posted a ton of cards in this thread. Check it out.
     
    Mendoza, Apr 6, 2018
    Mendoza, Apr 6, 2018
    #45
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