1 - Joe Louis 2 - Mike Tyson 3 - Sonny Liston 4 - Jack Dempsey 5 - Rocky Marciano 6 - Lennox Lewis 7 - Vitali Klitscko 8 - George Foreman 9 - Max Baer 10-Max Schmeling 11-Wladamir Klitchko 12-Joe Frazier 13-Earnie Shavers 14-David Tua 15-Sam Langford 16-Jersey Joe Walcott 17-Jim Jeffries 18-Harry Wills 19-Bob Fitzimmons 20-Cleveland Williams
Not a bad list. You said composite punchers, and it looks like you've made your list accordingly. I disagree in a few areas. 1. Joe Louis 2. Mike Tyson 3. Wladamir Klitchko- I'm no where near touting his greatness as a fighter,but he is something on offense. 4. Sonny Liston 5. Jack Dempsey 6. Rocky Marciano 7. Lennox Lewis 8. George Foreman 9. Tommy Morrison- This is the one of the few times his name will reside in such company. 10. Ron Lyle 11. Jim Jeffries 12. David Tua 13. Vitali Klitschko 14. Tim Witherspoon 15. James Smith 16. Ron Lyle 17. Michael Moorer 18. Evander Holyfield 19. Earnie Shavers- tops the list in terms of pure power, offense is as effective as previous mentions(ok. he deserves higher ranking, just now thinking of him) 20. Riddick Bowe. Had a balanced, though sloppy at times, offense.
Interesting stuff. I always think off Wladamir as a "fair-weather puncher", that is a guy who has to establish a rythym, and can't rely upon attack to get him there (like Rocky could, for example), it has to happen more naturally for him, through stylistic or physical dominance, and my ranking of him reflects this. But your point about him is a fair one. Shavers does need to be a we bit higher on your list perhaps, but I like to apply the power logic in reverse sometimes - the fact that he was so powerful but did not score more KO's says something about his composite punching. Shave of 5% of that power and he doesn't make my list at all, so I will not say 19 is a terrible spot for him. Ron Lyle does not belong on a list like this in my view. He does not hav a spectacular KO ratio, he does not have great combinations, he is not quick, he is not a good finisher. He is not a good composite puncher in my opinion, possibly Ali would rate higher on my top 100! You have Hollyfield; he just missed out on my list along with one or two others. You have a very modern lean here! No Max Baer is the biggest surprise, his hardest blows often seem harder than Tua's/Shavers etc, if you include them, why not Baer?
I was trying not to let his power influence what I thought was quality of punch. I've got no problems with him being on a list, but he was very right hand heavy. I thought that some of these guys showed a little more balance. Razor Ruddock was a very good puncher, but I thought he was too partial to his left to make this list.
It's a good list. Mine would look a bit different. I'd move Wlad up to spot 7 and i'd move Baer down a bit. I think he hit about as hard as Tua, but Tua had better technique.. although both are limited. I'd put them close. Shavers is a tough one, huge power but limited punching ability otherwise.. i agree with your placing of him. I'd put Dempsey a bit lower and Liston around 7. How much stock do you put into aggressiveness? For instance, a guy like Dempsey has a maximum number of KO's because of his style, while guys like Walcott or Schmeling were happy with counter punching, holding their KO's back a bit at times. Bruno could be considered in there too, for the same reason Shavers is. I would also put Riddick Bowe pretty high, higher than Schmeling (who is #10) for instance. While Bowe didn't have great power, his combinations, aggression and high stamina make him a dangerous puncher.
good list mcgrain. vitali belongs nowhere on such a list though. vitali threw arm punches, horrible punching technique, lacked handspeed, lacked combinations, and he never knocked out an inshape legit contender let alone a great fighter. heres my list 1. Joe Louis 2. Mike Tyson 3. Sonny Liston 4. Jack Dempsey 5. Rocky Marciano 6. George Foreman 7. Joe Frazier 8. Lennox Lewis 9. Max Baer 10. Sam Langford 11. James Jeffries 12. George Godfrey 13. David Tua 14. Cleveland Williams 15. Elmer Violent Ray 16. Wladimir Klitschko 17. Harry Wills 18. Floyd Patterson 19. Razor Ruddock 20. Jersey Joe Walcott
I think that Baer's tehcnique is underated as far as punching foes. Where I think he is miserable is movement. This can come under deployment so I don't neccesarily disagree with a bit of your argument, but the difference between Baer and Tua is Tua is more likely to corner you. Assuming Baer corners you, Baer is the better puncher. I hear you where Wlad is concernerd; my opinion on him specifically is elsewhere in the thread if you fancy a look. It's only a specific description of deployment; in that sense, mot much. As far as Dempsey specifically goes, i've mentioned to you the fact I think he overated on account of the Willard film; but I don not condone throwing the footage out. Dempsey, judged specifically on that film, is a candidate for the #1 spot, I feel. Demspey is rated in the light of this film, but also in the light of what else his record/film library tells us. [/quote]guys like Walcott or Schmeling were happy with counter punching, holding their KO's back a bit at times.[/quote] Yes;these men are regarded highly by me because they are sneaky and clever. In Walcott's case, here is a fighter capable of hurting you without you actually knowing when you were hit or (sometimes) who by. Schmeling has some of the same, but I have always considered the argument about who was the more powerful of the two a bit silly. But the argument about who was the better puncher is valid, because of the composite sense of the argument. You know? I considered him. I think his punching commanded a little less respect than Shavers, for example. But I wouldn't object to seeing him at the very bottom of a top 20 list. Bowe and McVey missed out by very little...Bowe is another reasonable top 20. However, I do feel that you overate him, as you say, he didn't have one punch KO power, I also feel you overestimate his combination punching slightly, as regards what is "on" them. I couldn't disagree with you more about him being above Schmeling. I think Max has better timing, is better concealed and hits harder, not pound for pound, actually harder. So it is hard for me to see him above Max on any list.
I disagree, he is very heavy handed when he sits down and is very very accurate to boot. That accuracy, combined with his potential specific delivery on any opponent makes him very high as a puncher for me; though looking again at my list I actually think I may have overestimated him a wee bit. I do think he is top 12 though. Very good list. To my astonishment you underate Jersey Joe a wee bit. I would say Jersey has a better chance to drop Jeffries, for example, than Lewis does, even if Lewis has a better chance to KO him...that can't be underestimated in terms of punching. Jersey is smart enough to dump literally anybody. I admire your having Langford so high; I thin it is defendable. But still, it is very high for a man weighing what he does. Frazier above Lewis is not defendable in my view. You need to review that. Lewis is a FAR better composite puncher than Joe Frazier. Lewis is elite, absolutley elite, in this department. Frazier is just very good.
Much more telegraphed, less variance. But I will not say you are wrong. There is only one HW puncher who runs Louis close in my view and that is Tyson. I think Louis shades it on technique, distance, variance and individual combo speed.
Im changing one of my picks. Ingemar Johannsen should easily be in top 20. Look what he did on film to eddie machen and floyd patterson.....scary! Johannsens right was not only lethal in power, but it was also very trick accurate and unpredictable.
Last time i heard, you thought he was a euro bum who only scored knockouts because he tricked them into it or something like that.
The top five all look reasonable. Scanning down the list, I'd say Vitali Klitschko is much too high (and he should not be ahead of his brother), and Shavers, Tua, Walcott and Williams are all a bit high, as well. Riddick Bowe, for example, would make a much better candidate for hte top 20 than Williams, who has a paper thin knockout resume.
people wise up as they get older chris. I never said ingo was a 'bum' but i did say he knocked out alot of euro bums which in fact he indeed did. I do think he was very tricky, and part of the reason he was able to catch them with his hammer of thor was because he kept it so secret and americans like floyd and machen had no idea he had a deadly punch.
