Currenst ESB Classic ratings complied by most recent trends and studies. The addition of Lennox Lewis "when he was on", Moore's "MW Physical Prime" and Roy Jones Jr. "Super MW prime" have really shook things up. Toyko Douglas' stock has really fallen but a recent fantasy victory over Marciano has kept him in the top 20. The biggest loss to this year's ratings is PRIME David Tua? I mean, where did he go? He went from knocking out Frazier, Ali, Louis, and Marciano to utter obscurity. Meanwhile Golota and Morrison have really took off. And what's with all this past prime Dokes love? Guy is the new past prime Tucker. McCall has also took off thanks to his victories over Prime Foreman, Lewis "when he was not on" and the nuclear hot Bruce Seldon. 1. Lennox Lewis "when he was ON" 2. Roy Jones Jr. "Super MW prime" 3. Archie Moore "MW Prime" 4. Ike Ibeabuchi 5. Oliver McCall 6. Sonny Liston 7. Cleveland Williams "on the nights he faced Liston" 8. Bruce Seldon 9. Tommy Morrison 10. Old George Foreman 11. Older Old George Foreman 12. Andrew Golota 13. Frank Bruno "when he only lost to the best" 14. Ray Mercer 15. Prime Foreman 16. Tokyo Douglas 17. Lennox Lewis "when he was not on" 18. Razor Ruddock 19. Past Prime Dokes 20. Prime Dokes
My list is from about Joe Louis's time on... 1# Ali 2# Louis 3# Holmes 4# Lewis 5# Foreman 6# Holyfield 7# Frazier 8# Tyson 9# Liston 10# Marciano 11# Bowe 12# Vitali Klitschko 13# Wladimir Klitschko 14# Ken Norton 15# Tim Witherspoon 16# Michael Moorer 17# Ezzard Charles 18# Walcott 19 # Tony Tucker 20# Michael Spinks Ray Mercer, Jerry Quarry, Tony Tubbs, Razor Ruddock, Ron Lyle, Floyd Patterson, David Tua, Hasim Rahman, Chris Byrd, Oscar Bonavena, Oliver McCall, Archie Moore, Pinklon Thomas could all be put in either the 19 or 20 spot.....
Don't think I'd place Witherspoon, Tucker, Moorer and M. Spinks in the top 20. Some of them may squeeze into the top 30, while others top 40. The rest of your list is reasonable.
Having a little fun here, BE ? Is there an intermediate state between your serious and comic posting ? Assuming you're serious, then... He was never undisputed, true. But he became 'the man' after defeating Norton (even though it's not certain that he did defeat Norton, he got the nod, and it wasn't a robbery). His lineal claim was further strengthened (even if somewhat pathetically) by his defeat of a faded Ali. After that, I'm ****ed off at him for lending legitimacy to yet a third governing body and moving to the IBF. But he did have a good run there. IMO, he lost to Witherspoon and he had close fights that he never rematched and some he outright avoided. Still, he did enough IMO to crack the top ten. And certainly enough to eclipse Maxim at HW, and Chagaev. This part suggests a switch between your modes of posting. :yep Ernie Shavers ? This pretty much confirms the suspicions.
A fine fighter, but not top 20 material. One of the better heavyweights never to hold the title though.
Agreed he's very underrated though imo , bottled Louis up though pre fight after Joe asked what all the blue scars all over him , his trainer replied " they were from fighting tigers in the Welsh mountains "
I think this is one of the most interesting list.The Tubbs brothers rule.(Obviously Nate destroyed Corrie)
Who do you think is more deserving to be ranked? Witherspoon on a good night was a tough test for anyone. He captured multiple world titles, his biggest problem was his inconsistency. Still I feel with all his ups and downs he still proved to be a very good fighter and as I said in his prime H2H I feel I'd give him a solid shot against a lot of great fighters. Same goes for Tucker.... Moorer I feel is very underrated he captured multiple world titles winning one of them from Evander Holyfield... Michael Spinks I included simply because of his two wins against Larry Holmes, ending Holmes unbeaten steak, add on his win against Gerry ****ey and I feel Spinks deserves a spot. Honestly though I put a lot of thought into my list and was surprised with some of the guys I included myself but honestly who would you place ahead of them... Like I said I don't include fighters from before Joe Louis's time..
I think we should include fighters before Lewis if there is adequate evidence of their abilities, especially considering how they would handle bigger later men. Nevertheless, starting with Louis... NOT considering total accomplushments but peak? Bowe probably. Possibly Schmelling, arguably Patterson... But the '80's guys you named you names, at their best, you can argue for.
Rank then as you wish, but the logic of Frazier #5 with Foreman #9 is rare. Few have Frazier as high as #5, and few have Foreman below Frazier.