Enclosed are my top 15 ranked heavyweights by 20 year intervals. The criteria for the ranking as follows. 1 ) Head to head vs. the field, which is strictly my personal opinion. 40% 2 ) Resume of wins and losses, excluding losses that happened when a fighter was past their prime. 30% 3 ) Distinction of the fighter as champion by beating top contenders in title matches if applicable. 20% 4 ) Historians input, which matter most to fighters not on film. 10% I will try to list each fighter only once, placing him closest to his prime years. I am also open to shifting the ratings as bit, as this is the 1st draft. So constructive feedback with explanations is most welcome. 1885-1905 Pioneer era: The transitional time between bare knuckles and London Prize ring rules to Queensberry rules. 1.Jeffries 2.Fitzsimmons 3A. Jackson 3B. Corbett 5. Sullivan 6. Sharkey 7. Slavin 8. Ruhlin 9. Goddard 10. Griffin 11. Maher 12. Choynski 13. Hart 14. McCoy 15. OBrien 1906-1925 Black and white filmed era: 1. Dempsey 2. Tunney 3. J Johnson 4. Langford 5. Wills 6. Jeanette 7. McVey 8. Willard 9. Greb 10. Gibbons 11. Burns 12. Miske 13. Godfrey 14. Norfolk 15. Smith 1926-1945 Great Depression to World War II: An era where war and the great depression in the USA hurt boxing. I have trouble with the bottom of this list, as the depth is rather thin. 1. Louis 2. Charles 3. Schmeling 4. Walcott 5. M Baer 6. Carnera 7. Godfrey 8. Moore 9. Bivins 10. Schaff 11. Conn 12. Hamas 13. Pastor 14. Farr 15. Loughran 1946-1965 Golden age era: 1. Liston 2. Marciano 3. Patterson 4. Johansson 5. Ray 6. Terrell 7. Machen 8. Folley 9. Williams 10. H. Johnson 11. Valdes 12. D Jones 13. Chuvalo 14. Layne 15. Cooper 1966-1985: TV expansion to Cable and PPV: This era is loaded with talent. 1. Ali 2. Holmes 3. Foreman 4. Frazier 5. Norton 6. Witherspoon 7. Thomas 8. Quarry 9. Page 10. Coetzee 11. Shavers 12. Lyle 13. C00ney 14. Young 15. Weaver 1986-2003: 12 round era and super heavyweight era. This era had tremendous depth, and a lot of talent. 1. Lewis 2. Holyfield 3. Tyson 4. Bowe 5. Ibeabuchi 6.Byrd 7. Morrer 8. Mercer 9. Douglas 10. Tua 11. Morrison 12. Bruno 13. Rhaman 14 McCall 15. Ruiz. 2003-( ratings are of 2015 ) 2026 Eastern European dominance era. While this era is only half over, the nations producing the top talent has shifted. Once the iron curtain in Eastern Europe fell both the amateur and professional ranks have been dominated by Eastern Europeans. Only 2 Americans made the top ten. Since many of the below fighters careers are over, and future talent in the amateurs will arrive, this list will likely look very different after the Klitshckos come 2026. It is possible young pros such as Joshua will rate in the next 4 years. Hopefully we will all be here to debate it! 1A. V Klitschko 1B. W Kltischko 3. Povetkin 4. Chagaev 5. Sanders 6. Ibragimov 7. Haye 8. Adamek 9. Chambers 10. Brewster 11. Peter 12. Valuev 13. Gomez 14. Solis 15. Pulev
I can't see how you have Eddie Machen over Harold Johnson? Harold beat him. I also question Roy Harris being rated over Rex Layne? Layne beat Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott before Marciano did. Whom did Harris ever beat?
Johnson's HW resume is top 5 worthy from the era specified. He beat Charles, Henry, Valdes, Machen, Bivins, Godoy, Satterfield, Slade, and even his best LHW scalps like Jones and Pastrano(controversial loss) were decent players at HW.
I can imagine people struggling with it on account of their head-to-head results, but in the end it is Frazier who has the better win and who has the better competition: GUYS RANKED AT SOME POINT THAT FRAZIER BEAT: Oscar Bonavena (x2), Eddie Machen, Doug Jones, George Chuvalo, Manuel Ramos, Jerry Quarry, Jimmy Ellis (x2), Muhammad Ali. He also defeated Bob Foster, Buster Mathis and Dave Zyglewicz who were never ranked. I've also excluded opposition for Joe that shot when he fought them. GUYS RANKED AT SOME POINT THAT FOREMAN BEAT:Frazier x2, George Chuvalo, Jose Roman, Ken Norton, Ron Lyle, Scott LeDuex, Gerry ****ey, Moorer. So there's very clearly a very clear basis. For ranking Frazier higher. I also rank him higher head to head for the record.
Well, Machen had his moments and lasted the distance with Liston and beat Quarry. Did Johnson beat anyone as good as Quarry? I view Johnson mostly as a Light Heavyweight. Johnson edged Machen 5-4-1 in a 10 round match. It was close. After further review, I think Layne belongs and Harris does not. Will update. Thanks for the feedback.
1. muhammed "ali palli" -highest acheivements, bizarre style 2. lovely Louis - longest records, consummate skills, not at fault for bum of month since he'd ripped the real contenders apart long before he started it. 3. lummox lewy, complete skills and assets let down by slight concentration issues 4. larry "no holmo" holmes -great skillset, unbeaten till old, magnificent run let down by a few stiff opps. 5. The Rock - blindingly perfect record and excellent physical attributes let down by the possibility of mafia setup fights, some weak opps, limited skills and a late start. 6. Jack "UnforgivableBlackness" Johnson - in reality a much longer unbeaten title streak than the one that began with his demolition of li'l tommy, though marred by his avoidance of black fighters once he got the title. The first full undisputed world champion, since most of the others previous drew the fictitious colour line. 7. ol Georgie Foreman - one early excellent reign plus an unbelievable fortysomething reign, still unprecendented, mark out a clear pedigree from the day he put on gloves till the day he hung them up. 8. Iron Mickey Tyson - unprecendeted early start, unification and established undisputability almost fresh out of high school and offensive skillset let down by poor character and inevitable slide relatively early in life. 9. John L Sully - ruled for an unprecedented time given his poor training methods, but marred by his being in reality only a partial titlist given the color line he used to remain unbeaten for so long/ 10. Jack "kid blackie" Dempsey - great physical attributes, early start and unbeaten record let down by a tailing off of his career as it morphed into a near prima donnas to the point where he became slow, clubfooted and readily beatable. 11. Smoking Joe - almost unprecedented early start, but crashed and burned due to his style. 12. Evander the Holyman - outstandingly dizzying heights reached for a LHW and CW, but marred by drug use. 13. Wlad K - outstanding longevity let down by the eurobum level of competition for so long to maintain his narrow skillsets wins and appalling H2H losses, easily the worst of a HW champion. to be continued.
You've made the case here for ranking Frazier higher alltime than Foreman. I don't agree, but I understand the rationale. This bit is harder to understand. :huh
Ali Louis Lewis Foreman Holmes Marciano Frazier Liston Johnson Dempsey Holyfield Wlad Tyson Wills Jeffries Vitali Charles Walcott Patterson Schmeling
Yes, Ezzard Charles. Charles is better than Quarry. You also have Eddie Machen over Zora Folley. He had two opportunities against Folley and couldn't come away with a W either time. Folley very clearly outboxed him in the rematch.
I love it 1. Joe Louis 2. Muhammad Ali 3. Rocky Marciano 4. Lennox Lewis 5. George Foreman 6. Joe Frazier 7. Jack Johnson 8. Evander Holyfield 9. Mike Tyson 10. Jack Dempsey 11. Larry Holmes 12. Jim Jeffries 13. Sonny Liston 14. Harry Wills 15. Wladimir Klitschko (slightly reluctant to put him in) 16. Langford 17. Charles 18. Patterson 19. Schmelling 20. Walcott
1. Joe Louis 2. Muhammad Ali 3. Larry Holmes 4. Jack Johnson 5. Rocky Marciano 6. Mike Tyson 7. Lennox Lewis 8. George Foreman 9. Jack Dempsey 10. Joe Frazier 11. Evander Holyfield 12. Sonny Liston 13. Wladimir Klitschko 14. James J. Jeffries 15. Ezzard Charles 16. John L. Sullivan 17. Floyd Patterson 18. Gene Tunney 19. Max Schmeling 20. Jersey Joe Walcott 21. Ridd1ck Bowe 22. Vitali Klitschko 23. Ken Norton 24. Sam Langford 25. Michael Spinks
Is this just based on rosy visioned nostalgia or something slightly more rigorous in the intellectual department. If you are putting Dempsey in front of Tyson or Waldo, it is surely the former.