1] Sugar Ray Robinson 2] Armstrong 3] Langford 4] Greb 5] Pep 6] Duran 7] Wilde 8] Fitzsimmons 9] Tunney 10] Jack Johnson 11] Charles 12] B.Leonard 13] R.Leonard 14] Louis 15] Ali 16] Gans 17] Jofre 18] Walker 19] Moore 20] Burley 21] Ketchel 22] Marciano 23] Saddler 24] B.Ross 25] Whitaker 26] Monzon 27] Salvador Sanchez 28] Roy Jones Jnr 29] Canzoneri 30] I.Williams 31] Jack Dempsey 32] Hagler 33] Babadoes Joe Walcott 34] Holmes 35] Dixon 36] Cesar Charvez 37] E.Griffith 38] Arguello 39] Holyfield 40] Kid Gavilan 41] Hearns 42] Napoles 43] M.Ortiz 44] L.Lewis 45] Mayweather Jnr 46] Calzaghe 47] Britton 48] Olivares 49] M.Spinks 50] Pacquiao 51] Hopkins 52] Wills 53] Harada 54] W.Gomez 55] foster 56] Villa 57] Loughran 58] R.Lopez 59] Attell 60] Al Brown 61] C.Ortiz 62] Dick Tiger 63] Conn 64] Perez 65] Canto 66] McGovern 67] Trinidad 68] Ted Kid Lewis 69] Kid Chocolate 70] Joe Brown 71] Tiger Flower 72] Cerdan 73] Jeffries 74] Pryer 75] Basilio 76] Dundee 77] McLarnin 78] T.Ryan 79] McCallum 80] Montgomery 81] Beau Jack 82] Freddie Welsh 83] W.Benitez 84] De La Hoya 85] Barrera 86] Gibbons 87] Kilbane 88] Blackburn 89] Ambers 90] Tyson 91] H.Williams 92] Liston 93] Herman 94] Philly Jack O'Brien 95] LM Rodriquez 96] Cervantes 97] Zarate 98] Driscoll 99] Toney 100]Galaxy 101]Hatton 102]Tszyu 103]Rosenbloom 104]Zale 105]Vicente Salvador 106]LaBarba 107]Kid Williams 108]Genero 109]Nonpareil Jack Dempsey 110]Battling Nelson 111]B.Lynch 112]La Motta 113]Foreman 114]Frazier 115]Wolgast 116]Loi 117]Carpentier 118]Locche 119]Gushiken 120]Kane 121]Jersey Joe Walcott 122]Dillon 123]Marshall 124]Graziano 125]Delaney 126]Camacho 127]Sharkey 128]J.Lynch 129]Kingpetch 130]Barry 131]Buchanan 132]Benvenuti 133]Baer 134]Jeanette 135]Kessler 136]Buff 137]Coulon 138]Chandler 139]Dawson 140]Wladimir Klitscko 141]P.Jackson 142]Morales 143]Winky Wright 144]Mosley 145]Blackburn 146]Griffo 147]Kid Berg 148]H.Johnson 149]Elorde 150]Norris 151]Escobar 152]Freddie Steele 153]Azumah Nelson 154]Bud Taylor 155]Accavallo 156]James J Corbett 157]Bivins 158]McFarland 159]Moran 160]Ohba 161]H.Gonzalez 162]JM Marquez 163]Hamed 164]Patterson 165]Kid McCoy 166]McGuigan 167]Freddie Miller 168]Carbajal 169]F.Burns 170]Winstone 171]Levinsky 172]Fullmer 173]McAuliffe 174]E.Pedroza 175]Pintor 176]Coulon 177]Pal Moore 178]Becerra 179]Jung Koo Chang 180]Fenech 181]Honeyghan 182]Collins 183]Qawi 184]John Henry Lewis 185]Eubank 186]Benn 187]Saad Muhammed 188]Bowe 189]Schmeling 190]Turpin 191]Michalczewski 192]Nunn 193]Virgil Hill 194]John L Sullivan 195]Ritchie 196]Barkley 197]Lew Jenkins 198]Chris John 199]Ottke 200]Bute Seen lots of top 100's on the net, but never a top 200 ?
Well done! I bet that wasn't fun...no way am I making a 200. I was pretty unhappy with my 100. It just gets to soft. It gets odd down around 60, it's to hard to draw distinctions for me. You got Jack Johnson at #10?
Pavlik above fighters like Pedroza and Morales is the first thing that stands out . Well done though .
I applaud you for your efforts, but I have a question at first glance about this list. Why do you have Roberto Duran, Jack Johnson, Sam Langfor and Bob Fitzsimmons above Muhammad Ali?
Why on earth would you question Langford's being above Ali?! The man beat great fighters from welterweight to heavyweight, outpunched punchers, outboxed boxers, outgeneraled generals. I share your concerns about Johnson, that seems odd, but Duran and Langford? And Fitzsimmons?
A top 200 seems like a mind boggling task so I applaud your effort and thank you for giving us something to look at in that regard. Obviously nobody is going to agree with everything in a top 200 list but I think it's a great effort and one i wouldn't even attempt. My initial 2 cents after a quick glance: Ali is a little too low and a couple current guys are a little too high IMO (Mayweather, Calzaghe). Great effort!
I'd like to hear why Jack Dempsey (heavy) is above Jack Dempsey (middle). Never seen that before on this forum.
He also lost a shitload of fights, but I see your point to some degree. Fitzsimmons does not deserve to be rated above the greatest, and frankly I'm not sure that I see a terribly strong argument for Duran being above him either.
Well I have Ali above Fitszimmons, but very, very close. Fitz had huge success against much bigger men and did the business in three weight divisions against some top fighters. I think it is reasonable to have Bob above Muhammad, definitely. Duran is the #1 at lightweight, has a win over a primed fighter at welter who is arguably the #2 or #3 at that weight, got all the way up to title status at middleweight. There's a terribly strong argumemt for sure. Ali has an astonishing resume, but he doesn't have the great record against bigger men that Duran has to go with his. It's checks and balances but success against bigger men is bound to be a consideration on any list that is trying to judge fighters on a pound for pound basis.
I never saw the best of Ali, when i was a boy Ali was coming to the end of his career, i remember him fighting Ken Norton for the 3rd time and was sure that Norton had won the fight {it seemed to me that Ali spent half the fight covering up on the ropes}, Harry Carpenter if i remember right threaten to resign and never commentate again {respected British commentator} because he like me thought the result to be wrong ? The story of how years earlier Henry Cooper had knocked Ali down and how Angelo Dundee had split Ali's glove giving him vital extra time to recover was trotted out, these events plus watching him lose to Leon Spinks, Holmes and Berbick at the very end of his career did not make a good impression on me. Jack Johnson is a marvellous story {should make a film about him, if they have'nt already} how he chased the then heavyweight champion around the World to fight him, he does have a little bit of a reputation as a cherry picker, fighting some older, smaller boxers, but Jack Johnson was a monster of a man, he would have been bigger than virtually every opponent no matter who he faced ?, at the end of the day he had wins against Jeffries,Ketchel,Langford,Fitzsimmons,Burns and Jeannette ! Pavlik is clearly to high i made this list before the Pavlik v Hopkins fight, infact i made the list straight after Hopkins/Calzaghe.
Roy Jones, Thomas Hearns, Floyd Mayweather Jr. and countless others have won titles in multiple divisions and have had huge success against bigger men. Does that mean they should all be rated above Ali too? The recurring theme that I'm seeing here, is your interest in beating bigger men. How can a natural heavyweight be held to these standards, when he's never had the opportunity to climb to a higher weight class? Simply put, he has hit the ceiling and thus can't partake in such a comparison. Now, what we can do, is look at how Ali was an enormous underdog against a slew of all time greats who predicted to beat him.. He defeated George Foreman, Sonny Liston and Joe Frazier who commonly appear on a lot of people's top 10 heavyweight list. He avenged 3 of his five losses, something Duran did not do, and has a far less padded record. He was also never manhandled in two rounds the way that Duran was against Hearns. Wrap it up with an olympic gold medal and claim to being his division's first three time champ, and I say you've got a winner.
Nonpareil Jack Dempsey fought in the 1880's very hard to gauge, i can only find 2 other boxers he fought on my list and he lost both by TKO {T.Ryan and Fitzsimmons} In fairness those fights was at the end of his career, 'classic' posters knowledge would far outweigh mine.
Do we have to have this every time? You KNOW the difference between Duran's resume and Jones's. That is true, so what do you do, throw out the astonishing achievment of Duran's in his beating a large, punching middleweight for the title? Just ignore the fact that he beat these bigger men? Regard them based upon paper resume rather than reality? You are looking at this in entirely the wrong way - or rather a way that is biased towards Heavyweight to the detrement of every other division rather than the reverse.
That wasn't my point. No, we don't ignore them. We acknowledge his accomplishments, while fairly weighing out other citeria to properly judge Ali, which I have provided. You mean I'm selectively picking and chosing criteria for judging fighters and placing greater value on it for the purpose of better suiting my argument? Good method isn't it:hey I think we're both pretty well versed in its use.
I'm assuming you're looking for some feedback/critique. No way McGuigan rates higher than Pedroza despite the head to head win. Nor higher than Pintor, Saad Muhammed and others for that matter.