Top 200 All Time List, Impossible Task ?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by trampie, Jan 15, 2009.


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  1. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Here it is, not in any real order past about the 115 mark, but just a compilation of guys that should be in the discussion.


    1. Sugar Ray Robinson
    2. Harry Greb
    3. Henry Armstrong
    4. Benny Leonard
    5. Sam Langford
    6. Roberto Duran
    7. Ezzard Charles
    8. Muhammad Ali
    9. Archie Moore
    10. Willie Pep
    11. Joe Gans
    12. Sugar Ray Leonard
    13. Marvin Hagler
    14. Carlos Monzon
    15. Pernell Whitaker
    16. Barney Ross
    17. Jimmy Wilde
    18. Sandy Saddler
    19. Tony Canzoneri
    20. Eder Jofre
    21. Joe Louis
    22. Kid Gavilan
    23. Gene Tunney
    24. Mickey Walker
    25. Julio Cesar Chavez
    26. Jose Napoles
    27. Ike Williams
    28. Fighting Harada
    29. Emile Griffith
    30. Salvador Sanchez
    31. Alexis Arguello
    32. Thomas Hearns
    33. Roy Jones Jr.
    34. Bob Fitzsimmons
    35. Carlos Ortiz
    36. Jim Driscoll
    37. Packey McFarland
    38. Joe Walcott
    39. Terry McGovern
    40. Evander Holyfield
    41. Michael Spinks
    42. Charley Burley
    43. Jimmy McLarnin
    44. Luis Rodriguez
    45. Carmen Basilio
    46. Duilio Loi
    47. Rocky Marciano
    48. Larry Holmes
    49. George Dixon
    50. Wilfred Benitez
    51. Nicolino Locche
    52. Ted Kid Lewis
    53. Jack Britton
    54. Jake Lamotta
    55. Bernard Hopkins
    56. Azumah Nelson
    57. Aaron Pryor
    58. Tommy Ryan
    59. Miguel Canto
    60. Lou Ambers
    61. Tommy Loughran
    62. Carlos Zarate
    63. Ruben Olivares
    64. Wilfredo Gomez
    65. Dick Tiger
    66. Billy Graham
    67. Joey Giardello
    68. Stanley Ketchel
    69. Tiger Flowers
    70. Vicente Saldivar
    71. Abe Attell
    72. Oscar De la Hoya
    73. Harold Johnson
    74. Billy Conn
    75. Floyd Mayweather
    76. Antonio Cervantes
    77. Manuel Ortiz
    78. Owen Moran
    79. Holman Williams
    80. Bob Montgomery
    81. Bob Foster
    82. Jack Johnson
    83. Jackie Kid Berg
    84. Jack Blackburn
    85. Beau Jack
    86. Dave Holly
    87. Sammy Angott
    88. Young Griffo
    89. Lew Tendler
    90. Jack Dempsey
    91. Joe Frazier
    92. George Foreman
    93. Marcel Cerdan
    94. Felix Trinidad
    95. Kid Chocolate
    96. Pasqual Perez
    97. Johnny Kilbane
    98. Mike McCallum
    99. Johnny Dundee
    100. Mike Gibbons
    101.Lloyd Marshall
    102.Mike Tyson
    103.Gene Fullmer
    104.Esteban DeJesus
    105.Freddie Welsh
    106.Ken Buchanan
    107.Ismael Laguna
    108.Flash Elorde
    109.Nino Benvenuti
    110.Erik Morales
    111.Marco Antonio Barrera
    112.Eusebio Pedroza
    113.Ricardo Lopez
    114.Lennox Lewis
    115.Sammy Mandell

     
    sweet_scientist, Jan 16, 2009
    sweet_scientist, Jan 16, 2009
    #46
  2. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    continued.....

    116.    Kid Lavigne
    117.Jimmy Carter
    118.Battling Nelson
    119.Sonny Liston
    120.Jeff Fenech
    121.Panama Al Brown
    122.Pancho Villa
    123.Jimmy Bivins
    124.Freddie Miller
    125.Benny Lynch
    126.Jung-Koo Chang
    127.Jack Non-Pareil Dempsey
    128.Floyd Patterson
    129.Maxie Rosenbloom
    130.John Henry Lewis
    131.Tony Zale
    132.Young Corbett III
    133.Eddie Perkins
    134.Jack McAuliffe
    135.Young Peter Jackson
    136.Jack Chase
    137.Cocoa Kid
    138.Billy Petrolle
    139.Philadelphia Jack O’Brien
    140.Kostya Tszyu
    141.Georges Carpentier
    142.Shane Mosley
    143.Eddie Booker
    144.James Toney
    145.Mysterious Billy Smith
    146.Harry Wills
    147.Hiroyuki Ebihara
    148.Tommy Burns
    149.Ernesto Marcel
    150.Les Darcy
    151.Rodrigo Valdez
    152.Jack Dillon
    153.Joe Brown
    154.Baby Arizmendi
    155.Jack Delaney
    156.Jersey Joe Walcott
    157.Ad Wolgast
    158.Meldrick Taylor
    159.Sam McVea
    160.Pedro Montanez
    161.Rocky Kansas
    162.Lionel Rose
    163.Willie Ritchie
    164.Lupe Pintor
    165.Tommy Gibbons
    166.Jimmy Britt
    167.Kid Kaplan
    168.Salvatore Burruni
    169.Winky Wright
    170.Joe Calzaghe
    171.Johnny Famechon
    172.Chucho Castillo
    173.Dwight Muhammad Qawi
    174.Jeff Clark
    175.Donald Curry
    176.Buddy McGirt
    177.Matthew Saad Muhammad
    178.Willie Joyce
    179.Rafael Herrera
    180.Horacio Accavallo
    181.Santos Laciar
    182.Betulio Gonzalez
    183.Masao Ohba
    184.Jiro Watanabe
    185.Yuri Arbachakov
    186.Sung Kil Moon
    187.Jose Becerra
    188.Jose Legra
    189.Venice Borkhorsor
    190.Sumbu Kalambay
    191.Rocky Lockridge
    192.Marlon Starling
    193.Sugar Ramos
    194.Gilberto Roman
    195.Terry Norris
    196.Fidel LaBarba
    197.Jimmy Barry
    198.Hector Camacho
    199.Jeff Chandler
    200.Hilario Zapata
    201.Miguel Lora
    202.Effren Torres
    203.Wes Ramey
    204.Frankie Genaro
    205.Kid McKoy
    206.Kid Azteca
    207.Chalky Wright
    208.Teddy Yarosz
    209.Lou Bogash
    210.Pete Sanstol
    211.Johnny Saxton
    212.Lew Jenkins
    213.Battling Siki
    214.Pone Kingpetch
    215.Khaosai Galaxy
    216.Marcel Thil
    217.Davey Day
    218. Raul Macias
     
    sweet_scientist, Jan 16, 2009
    sweet_scientist, Jan 16, 2009
    #47
  3. Rise Above

    Rise Above IBHOF elector Full Member

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    I have a hard enough time doing a top 20 let alone 200. I just constantly change my mind in regards to who sits where.
     
    Rise Above, Jan 16, 2009
    Rise Above, Jan 16, 2009
    #48
  4. trampie

    trampie Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Oct 18, 2008
    Good picks and well done for taking up the challenge if you have time put the bottom 100 in order as i would be interested to see where you rank certain boxers in relation to each other.

    Observations - Very good list or should i say lists {1 compiled, 1 for consideration}

    Before i talk about sweet_scientist's list a little about my own, my list was put together after Hopkins/Calzaghe bout, i could not believe the disrespect towards Calzaghe on this site at that time, so i created a list
    to show some of the doughnuts on the general 'boxing forum' look this is where Calzaghe stands in an all time list, it had to be a top 200 because at the time, some people were saying he would not make their top 100 {fair enough}, i figured that even the most biased of posters would be hard pressed not to have him in a top 200, that would be enough to make some doughnuts stop and think top 200 all time 'he must be good', and give the boxer some respect.
    If i had done a bona-fide list i would have ended up with something like yours lots of old boxers that most of the people that i was targeting would not have heard of and i would have had virtually no responce, so i needed a list with the best of the current crop on a list with the all time greats to stimulate conversation, interest, debate etc.
    Having drawn up a list i thought that i would put it on the 'classic' as well and get some long standing 'classic' posters to put up their top 200 {as i would be interested} but i could not put out one top 200 on the general 'boxing forum' and a different top 200 on the 'classic' forum ?

    Back to sweat_scientist's list -
    Benny Leonard #4 {no problem, i like Benny underrated by most}
    Bob Fitzsimmons #34 {a bit low ?}
    Mickey Walker #24 {i was critized for having him at #18}
    Harry Wills {outside the top 115 ?}
    Marvin Hagler #13 {very high ?}
    Lennox Lewis #114 {very low ?}
    Manny Pacquaio {nowhere to be seen in the top 218, currently i think he is over rated}
    James J Jeffries {not in top 218, i know boxrec have him listed as only having 21 fights {18 wins, 2 draws and 1 defeat}, 2 wins against Fitzsimmons, and 2 wins over both James J Corbett and Tom Sharkey as well as a win against Peter Jackson, his only loss coming against Jack Johnson in one of the most famous fights ever after been retired for about 6 years.}

    1 How old is your list ?
    2 Should i keep my 'fun' list {on the general forum} and update it whenever a Pacman or a Kessler fight, moving them up {slightly} and down {big time} whenever they win or lose for a bit of fun ?
    3 Lets see McGrain and the rest of the experts on here come out with a 'reasonable' top 200 as oppossed to a 'fun' 200. {good to compare}
     
    trampie, Jan 17, 2009
    trampie, Jan 17, 2009
    #49
  5. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Nov 8, 2004
    Trying to justify placings on a list is a futile exercise at the best of times but it's even more so the case the farther down a list you go. I could attempt an order but really, I'd probably be unable to justify the precedents of my 130th guy over someone as low as my 200th. For now I'm just content to say these guys are up there as exceptional fighters and leave it at that.

    Could have been a bit more subtle than adding a Mikkel Kessler, lol.

    Fitz is probably a little low, but his case is not helped in my books by the fact that I know next to naught about his opposition.

    I'd say the 20's is about right for Walker, it's a reasonable placing.

    Wills would have a case moving up the list, especially seeing as I have the likes of Dempsey in my list, but i'd have to give that one more thought. Heavies aren't my forte.

    Lennox, despite having a quite dominant reign gets downscaled significantly in my eyes for losing to journeymen fighters. I just tend to think that put in against most heavy greats at their peak, his jaw lets him down.

    Had Hagler beating Antuofermo the first time, CLEARLY and EASILY beating Duran and edging Leonard, hence my high regard for Marv.

    Pac still has a ways to go I think, so I just left him off. I'm not that big of a fan of his talent to tell the truth, but if he put away the gloves today he'd walk into my 200 without a problem.


    Most of the work on it was done 2 to 4 years ago. There's been adjustments and a few additions here and there since that time.


    Fun is fun, so do whatever you like. I don't mind a troll or two in the general forum myself, and so if you want to keep them on their toes and goading them into some banter, go for it.
     
    sweet_scientist, Jan 17, 2009
    sweet_scientist, Jan 17, 2009
    #50
  6. trampie

    trampie Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Good responces, i queried James J Jeffries as an after thought as well, that you may not have initially seen.
     
    trampie, Jan 17, 2009
    trampie, Jan 17, 2009
    #51
  7. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yeah he slipped through my clutches. He belongs :good
     
    sweet_scientist, Jan 17, 2009
    sweet_scientist, Jan 17, 2009
    #52
  8. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    it looks like bunch of names that came tumbling out of a washer machine :lol:
     
    redrooster, Jan 17, 2009
    redrooster, Jan 17, 2009
    #53
  9. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Raul Macias needs to get on youtube
     
    redrooster, Jan 17, 2009
    redrooster, Jan 17, 2009
    #54
  10. trampie

    trampie Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Thanks sweat_scientist you will proberbly see me trolling in the general 'boxing forum' from time to time, but when i need some serious opinions i will pop into the 'classic forum'.
     
    trampie, Jan 17, 2009
    trampie, Jan 17, 2009
    #55
  11. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    With the low rankings of Terry and Hector would be my guess :lol:
     
    sweet_scientist, Jan 17, 2009
    sweet_scientist, Jan 17, 2009
    #56
  12. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No worries, you'll find me doing the same trampie :good
     
    sweet_scientist, Jan 17, 2009
    sweet_scientist, Jan 17, 2009
    #57
  13. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Actually, putting long lists like this is not my thing so I shouldnt criticize but Hector was unbeaten for a whole decade. Doesnt he deserve better?

    Also, can you put in Galindez? he is one of my favorites
     
    redrooster, Jan 17, 2009
    redrooster, Jan 17, 2009
    #58
  14. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Galindez should definitely be there. Another oversight of mine. Thanks for that pick up Red :good
     
    sweet_scientist, Jan 17, 2009
    sweet_scientist, Jan 17, 2009
    #59
  15. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Definitely.
     
    sweet_scientist, Jan 17, 2009
    sweet_scientist, Jan 17, 2009
    #60
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