Top 200 All Time List, Impossible Task ?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by trampie, Jan 15, 2009.


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  1. asero

    asero Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    do you consider the contribution of a boxer to the growth of the sport in your list?

    like do you give ali, leonard and oscar some extra points on how influencial they have been over the years..

    in the selection of nba 50 greatest, they put a lot of weight on how a nba player contribute to the growth of basketball.
     
    asero, Jan 16, 2009
    asero, Jan 16, 2009
    #61
  2. jaco

    jaco Thomas Hearns Full Member

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    Wow.. honestly that list is awful, some of the inclusions are just shocking. Great job for giving it a go though, a top 10 is hard enough let alone a top 200!
     
    jaco, Jan 16, 2009
    jaco, Jan 16, 2009
    #62
  3. Dempsey1238

    Dempsey1238 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    1] Sugar Ray Robinson, Robinson had his problems with the Carman's, and Fullmers, and neither had Walker's power or strength. I highly favor Walker here.
    2] Armstrong, WARRRR. MMMM, Ok Walker by ko.
    3] Langford, Walker by ko.
    4] Greb, Ok Greb beat him.
    5] Pep, Walker by ko. He does what Saddler did by ten fore.
    6] Duran, again Walker's speed, chin, power, and will will over come any thing Duran has.
    7] Wilde, Villia ko Wilde, I belive Walker would do the same.
    8] Fitzsimmons, The Gods forbid such a fight from happing.
    9] Tunney, Walker repeats what Greb did.
    10] Jack Johnson, Walker by ko.
    11] Charles, Walker counts Charles and wins.
    12] B.Leonard, I give B Leonard this fight, but its close, I see this as a repeat of the Loughran fight, and that was close.
    13] R.Leonard, Walker would chase him out of the ring. And badly. If say Hearns gave RL problems, than Walker finishings it. Also Walker's chin will pervent a ko.
    14] Louis, Walker would know he would not out slug Louis, so he pulls a Billy Conn, and out points Louis, unlike Conn, Walker had the chin to stay. And assuming the weight in this dream match up.
    15] Ali, Yep Walker would kick his butt. And bad. If we took Joe Fraizer, gave him more speed, more power, and more defenses skills, and add a B plan after that(Walker can box, like he did vs Hudking, the guy look like Willie Pep in there) Ali stands no chance.
    16] Gans, Gans would lose to Walker also. Gans also had his share of problems with the swarmer types, Bat Nelson was posion to Gans, winning 2 out of 3.
    17] Jofre, I relly think Walker could ko him. Jofre always has problems with the swarmers types, as he did vs Harada.
     
    Dempsey1238, Jan 16, 2009
    Dempsey1238, Jan 16, 2009
    #63
  4. USboxer1981

    USboxer1981 The Real Def. MVP Full Member

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    Is this a boxrec top 200?
     
    USboxer1981, Jan 16, 2009
    USboxer1981, Jan 16, 2009
    #64
  5. trampie

    trampie Well-Known Member Full Member

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    No , contributing to the growth of a sport or been a good ambassador or doing charity work should have no part in a great list, a great list should strictly be on merit only. {although i would personally perfer a good egg to win/succeed}
     
    trampie, Jan 17, 2009
    trampie, Jan 17, 2009
    #65
  6. TommyV

    TommyV Loyal Member banned

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    My interest ended at the point you put Gene Tunney and Jack Johnson in the top 10. I have no time to read the rest of the list and point out your laughable picks.

    Props for giving it a go, this lists are extremely tough, but if your going to embarrass yourself, don't bother doing it at all.
     
    TommyV, Jan 17, 2009
    TommyV, Jan 17, 2009
    #66
  7. trampie

    trampie Well-Known Member Full Member

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    My list was put together after the Hopkins/Calzaghe bout, i could not believe the disrespect towards Calzaghe on this site at that time, so i created a list
    to show some of the doughnuts, on this forum, look this is where Calzaghe stands in an all time list, it had to be a top 200 because at the time, some people were saying he would not make their top 100 {fair enough}, i figured that even the most biased of posters would be hard pressed not to have him in a top 200, that would be enough to make some doughnuts stop and think top 200 all time 'he must be good', and give the boxer some overdue respect.
    If i had done a bona-fide list i would have ended up with lots of old boxers that most of the people that i was targeting would not have heard of and i would have had virtually no responce, so i needed a list with the best of the current crop on as well as the all time greats to stimulate conversation, interest, debate etc.

    Should i keep this 'fun' list going and update it whenever a Pacman or a Kessler fight ?, most of the all time greats are there and in order {although it is debatable how good the order is, it is not a million miles off comparing to other trusted sources}
    Lots of the active boxers on this list would have no part in a real atg top 200 list, but it is fun to include them on potential {move up a spot or two if they win, drop them like a stone if they lose}

    Jones Jnr ,Hopkins ,Calzaghe ,Holyfield ,Toney ,De La Hoya and Trinidad belong on the list.

    Pacquiao, Barrera, Wright and Mosley have strong cases for being on the list ?

    Wladimir Klitscho, Dawson, Kessler, Bute, Hatton and John have a bit of work to do to get anywhere near an atg top 200 list ? {Pavlik and Joppy would have been in this group but i had to drop them by public demand to try and keep some propotion, there is a small chance, actually a very small chance, that either Wlad, Dawson, Kessler, Bute, Hatton or John could make an all time list one day, but it seems from public reaction there is no chance for Pavlik and Joppy ?}

    1] Sugar Ray Robinson
    2] Armstrong
    3] Langford
    4] Greb
    5] Pep
    6] Duran
    7] Wilde
    8] Fitzsimmons
    9] Tunney
    10] Jack Johnson
    11] Charles
    12] B.Leonard
    13] R.Leonard
    14] Louis
    15] Ali
    16] Gans
    17] Jofre
    18] Walker
    19] Moore
    20] Burley
    21] Ketchel
    22] Marciano
    23] Saddler
    24] B.Ross
    25] Whitaker
    26] Monzon
    27] Salvador Sanchez
    28] Roy Jones Jnr *
    29] Canzoneri
    30] I.Williams
    31] Jack Dempsey
    32] Hagler
    33] Babadoes Joe Walcott
    34] Holmes
    35] Dixon
    36] Cesar Charvez
    37] E.Griffith
    38] Arguello
    39] Holyfield *
    40] Kid Gavilan
    41] Hearns
    42] Napoles
    43] M.Ortiz
    44] L.Lewis
    45] Mayweather Jnr
    46] Calzaghe *
    47] Britton
    48] Olivares
    49] M.Spinks
    50] Pacquiao *
    51] Hopkins
    52] Wills
    53] Harada
    54] W.Gomez
    55] foster
    56] Villa
    57] Loughran
    58] R.Lopez
    59] Attell
    60] Al Brown
    61] C.Ortiz
    62] Dick Tiger
    63] Conn
    64] Perez
    65] Canto
    66] McGovern
    67] Trinidad *
    68] Ted Kid Lewis
    69] Kid Chocolate
    70] Joe Brown
    71] Tiger Flower
    72] Cerdan
    73] Jeffries
    74] Pryer
    75] Basilio
    76] Dundee
    77] McLarnin
    78] T.Ryan
    79] McCallum
    80] Montgomery
    81] Beau Jack
    82] Freddie Welsh
    83] W.Benitez
    84] De La Hoya *
    85] Barrera *
    86] Gibbons
    87] Kilbane
    88] Blackburn
    89] Ambers
    90] Tyson
    91] H.Williams
    92] Liston
    93] Herman
    94] Philly Jack O'Brien
    95] LM Rodriquez
    96] Cervantes
    97] Zarate
    98] Driscoll
    99] Toney *
    100]Galaxy
    101]Hatton *
    102]Tszyu
    103]Rosenbloom
    104]Zale
    105]Vicente Salvador
    106]LaBarba
    107]Kid Williams
    108]Genero
    109]Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
    110]Battling Nelson
    111]B.Lynch
    112]La Motta
    113]Foreman
    114]Frazier
    115]Wolgast
    116]Loi
    117]Carpentier
    118]Locche
    119]Gushiken
    120]Kane
    121]Jersey Joe Walcott
    122]Dillon
    123]Marshall
    124]Graziano
    125]Delaney
    126]Camacho
    127]Sharkey
    128]J.Lynch
    129]Kingpetch
    130]Barry
    131]Buchanan
    132]Benvenuti
    133]Baer
    134]Jeanette
    135]Kessler *
    136]Buff
    137]Coulon
    138]Chandler
    139]Dawson *
    140]Wladimir Klitscko *
    141]P.Jackson
    142]Morales
    143]Winky Wright *
    144]Mosley *
    145]Blackburn
    146]Griffo
    147]Kid Berg
    148]H.Johnson
    149]Elorde
    150]Norris
    151]Escobar
    152]Freddie Steele
    153]Azumah Nelson
    154]Bud Taylor
    155]Accavallo
    156]James J Corbett
    157]Bivins
    158]McFarland
    159]Moran
    160]Ohba
    161]H.Gonzalez
    162]JM Marquez
    163]Hamed
    164]Patterson
    165]Kid McCoy
    166]McGuigan
    167]Freddie Miller
    168]Carbajal
    169]F.Burns
    170]Winstone
    171]Levinsky
    172]Fullmer
    173]McAuliffe
    174]E.Pedroza
    175]Pintor
    176]Coulon
    177]Pal Moore
    178]Becerra
    179]Jung Koo Chang
    180]Fenech
    181]Honeyghan
    182]Collins
    183]Qawi
    184]John Henry Lewis
    185]Eubank
    186]Benn
    187]Saad Muhammed
    188]Bowe
    189]Schmeling
    190]Turpin
    191]Michalczewski
    192]Nunn
    193]Virgil Hill
    194]John L Sullivan
    195]Ritchie
    196]Barkley
    197]Lew Jenkins
    198]Chris John *
    199]Ottke
    200]Bute *

    Sorry for being a troll :hi:
     
    trampie, Jan 17, 2009
    trampie, Jan 17, 2009
    #67
  8. stork

    stork Active Member Full Member

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    just get the felling theres a lot of curent/recent fighters there that are too high or shouldnt be there. But gratz on attempting it it would take me ages to do top 50 even,
     
    stork, Jan 17, 2009
    stork, Jan 17, 2009
    #68
  9. trampie

    trampie Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Check my last post 'stork' it explains why the current boxers are there.
    [ i have been taking some people for a ride, but dont tell anyone]
     
    trampie, Jan 17, 2009
    trampie, Jan 17, 2009
    #69
  10. stork

    stork Active Member Full Member

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    ahha ok i get ya
     
    stork, Jan 17, 2009
    stork, Jan 17, 2009
    #70
  11. JMP

    JMP Champion Full Member

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    that's seriously a terrible list...wow!
     
    JMP, Jan 17, 2009
    JMP, Jan 17, 2009
    #71
  12. trampie

    trampie Well-Known Member Full Member

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    'TommyV' do you now Tunney only lost once in 80 odd fights, that was to Greb who he then beat 3 times.
     
    trampie, Jan 17, 2009
    trampie, Jan 17, 2009
    #72
  13. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    You said your list was better than mine.

    I asked you 12 questions about your list in order for you to support your claim of superiority.

    The above quotation was your only response to my 12 questions, there was no attempt at any answer or explanation.

    Are you serious??

    This only strengthens my feeling that your list is a composite cut n paste of other lists you have found on the internet, if you have no reasoning to back up your decisions.

    Your list has taken some brutal and deserved criticism on this thread, and I really think that answering the 12 questions would provide your critics with your reasons for some seemingly unjustifiable choices, and this would make your list more palatable and credible to the forum.

    I will give you the 12 questions in a more simple format in a moment, but first I must address your ludicrous attempt to equate my admission that I do not know enough about George Dixon to include him in my top 100 with your inclusion of William Joppy at number 143 in your top 200.

    I call you JOPPY because to me, the inclusion of William Joppy in a top 200 is insane. I cannot understand how anyone who even knows what boxing is could think this was acceptable even for a single second.

    This was the first thing which made me suspicious about the originality and authenticity of your list.

    William Joppy is a 2000s fighter. Everyone knows about him and his career. Everyone saw him being dominated and annihilated by Felix Trinidad at middleweight, just before Bernard Hopkins did a similar thing to Trinidad. Everyone saw him being landslide UD'd by Jermain Taylor - who is NOT in your top 200, despite him also having two wins over Hopkins.

    This is too bizarre to be a genuine opinion. I fear this was a cut n paste mistake. Can someone who really knows so much about so many 1890s and 1900s boxers, as you have many in your list, really believe William Joppy is the 143rd best fighter ever, above Erik Morales and in the list while Jermain Taylor who dominated him doesn't make the 200?

    Now, not only do you have William Joppy in your top 200, you have him at 143rd. Ahead of ERIK MORALES. Ahead of AZUMAH NELSON. Ahead of JIMMY BIVINS. Ahead of GENE FULLMER. Ahead of another 53 people who should be higher than him, and ahead of countless others you left out completely who are obviously far greater fighters than he was.


    That was your main mistake.


    My main mistake in your eyes was not the inclusion of a 2000s fighter that everyone knows, but was the exclusion of a fighter who fought in the 1880s and 1890s. When I posted my list I put underneath it in the first post, before anyone had pointed it out, that I was not including George Dixon because I could not find enough material on him to be able to make a definitive judgement on his career and his abilities.

    This is what Sweet Pea (generally accepted to be one of the couple of most knowledgable posters on this site) said about including George Dixon in his list:

    This content is protected

    This content is protected




    So Joppy, does my conscious and explained choice to exclude Dixon for lack of evidence, a problem I share with Sweet Pea and for which you have given me the name GEORGIE HOLE, really equate to you placing William Joppy as the 143rd greatest fighter of all-time above Erik Morales and Azumah Nelson, knowing his career and the careers of his contemporaries full well??


    It takes a certain type of idiot to invoke a certain type of ownage. You Joppy, you are that idiot, aren't you?



    OK, here are those questions again but I've cut them down to 10 this time, if you fancy explaining yourself this time and not ignoring them and insulting me instead:

    1.What was your reasons for putting William Joppy at 143?

    2.What was your reason for having Jack Johnson higher than Ezzard Charles or Muhammad Ali?

    3.What was your reasons for having Eder Jofre higher than Archie Moore or Mickey Walker?

    4.Why was Rocky Marciano higher than Monzon, Canzoneri, Saddler and Whitaker?

    6.Why is Jack Dempsey higher than Barney Ross?

    7.Why is Larry Holmes higher than Emile Griffith?

    8.How can you justify Joe Calzaghe being anywhere near as high as 46? Do you really think he should be above guys like Carlos Ortiz, Fighting Harada, Terry McGovern, Holman Williams and Luis Manuel Rodriguez (there are plenty plenty more)?

    9.Ricky Hatton, Kelly Pavlik and Chad Dawson are above Erik Morales, Azumah Nelson, Harold Johnson and Jimmy Bivins. Why?

    10.You have included Chris John and Sven Ottke, but not included Winky Wright or Don Curry. Why is this?


    As I said the first time I posted questions, I only did so because you had a go at me.

    In case anyone thinks I am just being a **** with this, I have my own top 100 list on this forum, and I am very comfortable with answering in full any questions that Trampie or anyone else has on them. I wrote that list, posted it and never changed it because I believe in my choices. I can provide explanations for any choice and I doubt I will ever change that list, because I knew what I was doing when I wrote it, those are my actual opinions.
     
    DINAMITA, Jan 17, 2009
    DINAMITA, Jan 17, 2009
    #73
  14. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    No answers Trampie??
     
    DINAMITA, Jan 18, 2009
    DINAMITA, Jan 18, 2009
    #74
  15. trampie

    trampie Well-Known Member Full Member

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    DINAMITA, DINAMITA, DINAMITA i thought you supposed to be doing a PHD or something your not very bright are you ?

    My top 200 was a trap, a sham, smoke and mirrors designed to catch you out {as well as other Calzaghe haters, but primarily you}

    Did'nt you think it odd, that a poster who was able to compile a top 200,
    {possibly the only top 200 anywhere on the net} with most of all the greats and in order {although it is debatable how good the order is, it is not a million miles off in comparison to other trusted sources}
    Yet somehow had Jack Johnson ranked at #10 ?

    remember this :-
    OH MY GOD NO JACK JOHNSON
    and your responce :-
    I WAS TIRED, CARELESS, AND STUPID!
    you was right about the stupid :lol:

    Joe Calzaghe was ranked at #46 {you once said that 'only the top 50' are atg's}
    Bernard Hopkins was ranked at #51 {one of your favourite boxers, not an atg}

    Yet Jack Johnson, Joe Calzaghe and Bernard Hopkins rankings combined with the likes of Hatton, Pavlik, Chris John, Joppy and even Sven Ottke and you still did not realise the scam to make you look a fool was on :happy
    YOU FELL INTO THE TRAP, GOING NUTS, ASKING A MULTITUDE OF QUESTIONS, FOLLOWED BY THIS QUOTE -

    In case anyone thinks I am just being a **** with this, I have my own top 100 list on this forum, and I am very comfortable with answering in full any questions that Trampie or anyone else has on them. I wrote that list, posted it and never changed it because I believe in my choices. I can provide explanations for any choice and I doubt I will ever change that list, because I knew what I was doing when I wrote it, those are my actual opinions.

    The answer to your own question 'anyone thinks i am just being a ****' =:thumbsup

    The reason for me having to show you up was -
    After reading lots of your anti Joe Calzaghe posts, the following distasteful and nasty responce from yourself to a post was the final straw :hi:

    Re: If you think Hops can beat Cal in a rematch
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by trampie
    Think again, Calzaghe put in his worst performance for years against Hopkins, Calzaghe's family was interviewed a few hours after the fight in their living room by local tv back in Wales.
    Joe had told his Sister that he was disappointed with his performance !!!, his Sister was only interested to know that he was not hurt, this was not boxing trash talk, Joe had told his own Sister {who clearly knew nothing about boxing and was only interested that he was ok} that he was disappointed with his performance.

    I think Calzaghe beat Hopkins fair and square
    I think Calzaghe's performance was poor against Hopkins
    Calzaghe fought Hopkins away from home

    I think Calzaghe wins a rematch easily against Hopkins
    I think Calzaghe can not perform as badly again {unless in terminal decline, we will find out after the Jones bout}
    Any rematch will surely be at Home {Millenium Stadium, Cardiff}

    YOUR DISTASTEFUL, NASTY AND UGLY RESPONCE WAS -
    **** his sister!! Who gives a toss? You're wrong on all counts. :verysad
     
    trampie, Jan 19, 2009
    trampie, Jan 19, 2009
    #75
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