Top 25 P4p Today...

There are a few missing, like Dawson, Kessler, Calderon, etc.

 

This list is going to get a lot of arguements started.

It's more of a matter of opinion and I already disagree with some of the names you have up there and more of the names that you're missing.

 

1. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
2. Joe Calzaghe
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Miguel Cotto
5. Juan Manuel Marquez
6. Bernard Hopkins
7. Israel Vazquez
8. Kelly Pavlik
9. Ivan Calderon
10. Juan Diaz
11. Joan Guzman
12. Rafael Marquez
13. Wladimir Klitschko
14. Cristian Mijares
15. Mikkel Kessler
16. Chad Dawson
17. Chris John
18. Paul Williams
19. Ricky Hatton
20. Winky Wright
21. Shane Mosley
22. David Haye
23. Arthur Abraham
24. Jermain Taylor
25. Nonito Donaire
26. Junior Witter

 

1floyd mayweather
2 manny pacquiao
3 bernard hopkins
4 joe calzaghe
5 juan manuel marquez
6 miguel cotto
7 israel vaquez
8 rafael marquez
9 kelly pavlik
10 ronald wright
11 juan diaz
12 joan guzman
13 jermain taylor
14oscar de la hoya
15 ivan calderon
16 shane mosley
17 ricky hatton
18 wladimir klitschko
19 paul williams
20 cory spinks
21 mikkel kessler
22 arthur abraham
23 vernon forrest
24 chris john
25 nonito donaire

 

1-Floyd
2-Joe Calzaghe
3-Pacquiao
4-Cotto
5-Pavlik
6-Juan Diaz
7-Israel Vasquez
8-Rafael Marquez
9-Ivan Calderon
10-Nonito Donaire
11-Christian Mijares
12-Juan Manuel Marquez
13-Guzman
14-De La Hoya
15-B-Hop
16-Judah
17-Dawson
18-Spinks
18-Kessler
19-Hatton
20-Wright
21-John
22-Klitschko
23-Haye
24-Witter
25-Abraham

 

Why Does People Believe Manny Pacquiao Should Be Second When Joe Calzaghe Is Much A Better Fighter , The P4p Is All About The Best Fighter On The Planet Why Is Pacman Rated Higher Than Calzaghe

 

I have certain issue's with Pavlik being ranked top 10, especially when Mijares is #14 and I certainly have issue's with Wladimir Klitschko in the top 15.

If we want to compare, Pavlik struggled and disposed of a flawed champion. Mijares shredded and thrashed a flawed champion brutally and is a much better fighter, as is Joan Guzman for that matter.

I think that the fact of who you win a title off of should be taken into consideration, Juan Diaz's two wins over Freitas and Diaz are superior than Pavlik's over Miranda and Taylor, respectively, so he could also go up.

I will say however, you've got Taylor too high also, but Nonito Doniare at #25 is definitely where he should be. Chris John is not even top 25 in ability and Dawson is a lock for the top 12, though I can respect if you want to wait until he does a detail job on Glen Johnson.

I'm going to make my top 25 next and want your opinion, even if it's critical like mine.:yep

 

1. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
2. Joe Calzaghe
3. Manny Pacquiao
4. Miguel Cotto
5. Juan Manuel Marquez
6. Israel Vasquez
7. Juan Diaz
8. Cristian Mijares
9. Joan Guzman
10. Ivan Calderon
11. Rafael Marquez
12. Chad Dawson
13. Kelly Pavlik
14. Mikkel Kessler
15. Shane Mosely(going that close with a P4P top 5 locks you in regard still)
16. Wladimir Klitschko
17. David Haye(KTFO the CW champ counts for something)
18. Arthur Abraham
19. Ricky Hatton
20. Winky Wright
21. Fernando Montiel
22. Junior Witter
23. Vernon Forrest
24. Sergey Dzinziruk
25. Nonito Donaire


What do you think Brooklyn?

 

I take into account accomplishments more than I do ability for my pound for pound lists. I have made some lists based on one or the other, but when it comes to my P4P list, I'd say it's 60/40.

I'd put Pavlik top 10 now because he's knocked out a top 20, top 5, and the middleweight champion this year. He deserves credit for that and he is the unified middleweight champion. When I weigh his ability and resume, I feel he should be a part of this list. On ability alone, he's around 20 or so.

Mijares is a top 5 based on ability alone and Dawson is easily above Pavlik. I just don't feel they have the resume, yet, to surpass him. If he beat Donaire, Castillo, or Montiel, he would be top 6 or 7 on my list and above Pavlik. I'm waiting on Dawson to beat either Diaconu, Tarver, or Johnson.

I think Klitschko should be top 20 at least because of the way he has dominated his opponents recently. Byrd, Brock, and Brewster were all top 10-15 heavyweights and Wladimir beat them all in impressive fashion. He's head and shoulders above every heavyweight and has showed very good textbook skills. His jab is among the best in the sport and he can keep a distance very well. His right hand is lethal, but he does lack an inside game - resorting to clinching instead. Surely we can agree that Klitschko is a better fighter than Taylor or Williams.

It's hard to come up with a universal pound for pound list that people seem to agree on. In fact, it's probably impossible. Everybody looks for different things and bases them on different criteria. If you want to see my P4P top 10 Ability list, here it goes (in no particular order)...

Floyd Mayweather
Joe Calzaghe
Miguel Cotto
Cristian Mijares
Joan Guzman
Chad Dawson
Juan Manuel Marquez
Manny Pacquiao
Mikkel Kessler
Juan Diaz

HM: Ivan Calderon, Israel Vazquez, Rafael Marquez

:good

 

But my point is that we need to grade 'accomplishments' as they stand.

Calderon recently scraped by Cazares, a very limited fighter and not even of the class of a Humberto Soto, who Guzman easily outclassed. Add to the fact that it's evident that Joan Guzman is more skilled and to the fact that Calderon has shown signs at age 31 that he's starting to slip where as Guzman has shown that he's still alive and kicking, I think we ought to weigh in accomplishment at 50% and true all around ability as the other 50%.

Imagine if the establishment did mate, everyone would want to fight Guzman's, Dawson's, Mijares' and what not because they'd be pressed where they deserve and would draw money.

Another factor is that Guzman's only had 1 close fight in his entire 28 career wins against Barrios, Calderon's had about 4, 3 of which were of sub-Barrios level guys.

 

1-mayweather
2-calaghe
3-pacquiao
4-marquez
5-vazquez
6-juan diaz
7-haye
8-cotto
9-pavlik
10-john
11-guzman
12-kessler
13-b hop
14-dawson
15-klitschko
16-dela hoya
17-taylor
18-hatton
19-donaire
20-mijares
my top 20

 

Not a bad list. What do you base it more heavily on?

I see you have left Bernard Hopkins out. If we're going solely on ability alone, I don't think he makes the top 20 anymore. Perhaps I have held onto this win too long, but I still look at his win over Tarver and win over an 170 pound Winky Wright. I need to remind myself it's 2007 and just let go, because I would have a hard time justifying his placement

The things I disagree with you on are Abraham above Hatton because Hatton's 3 world titles in 2 different weight classes. I also feel he's faced the better overall opposition and his best win triumphs Abraham's best (Tszyu > Miranda).

I would also put Donaire above Dzinziruk because I hold Vic Darchinyan in a higher regard than Daniel Santos and Sebastian Lujuan. However, his resume isn't as deep as Dzinziruk.

I am curious where you think Paul Williams fits into the mix. And whether or not he deserves to be above Vernon Forrest. Do you consider Baldomir a better fighter than Margarito when Forrest/Williams faced them? Or do you hold Forrest's win in a higher regard because of the domination and clinic?