Top 3 fighters since Ray Robinson`s prime ????

Roberto Duran
Eder Jofre

not sure about the third

 

Leonard
Ali
Whitaker


Jumble the order round as you wish. Duran just misses out.

 

Longevity does require the capacity to evolve and compensate with new skills, tactics, strategies and resourcefulness as certain physical abilities decline, and Ray just didn't appear able to adapt accordingly. As smart as he was, this is a startling shortfall. It's weird to see Duran compete as well as he did in the first match with Camacho, and contrast that with Hector dropping and stopping Ray.

Regardless, other posters have continued to rate SRL throughout our conversation on this thread. He'll never be in any danger of getting short shrift here.

Your top 5 P4P choices are fine and perfectly reasonable selections, not at all laughable to me. Your placement of Ali reinforces your decision to leave him in your top three since Robinson.

Enquirer, you are probably familiar with my view (shared by some others), that the Duran of Montreal would have taken Hearns to unify the WW Title if they had met following Tommy's blasting of Cuevas in August 1980. (I feel very strongly that Roberto should have immediately committed to the new challenge of taking on the winner of Hearns-Cuevas after dethroning Ray, instead of opting for a rematch with somebody he'd already beaten.)

Styles make fights though, and many believe that Tommy would have always had Duran's number on a head to head basis (including some who rate Roberto higher than Hearns on an ATG listing). My suggestion that Tommy caught lightning in a bottle when they did meet in 1984 appears to be a minority view. How do you see Duran-Hearns unfolding in, say, November 1980, a situation where most probably would have been expecting Tommy to blast out El Cholo as he had just done to Pipino?

 

I see roberto of 1980 v hearns at 147 as being won by roberto by stoppage,after a few scares from tommys right. I think durans bodywork and slipping of tommys jab is vital. As tommy tires roberto will finish things off ala leonard. Tommy at 147 cant last 15 v duran.,nor stop him.
Their actual meeting in 84 was i think a once in a lifetime performance by tommy,he was soo quick (comparitively.) v the fatter older el cholo that duran could not brace himself for the shots,every knockdown was courtesy of shots duran couldnt see,duran would still have lost to hearns at 154 every time because hearns was perfect at that weight and duran just too slow,but not by stunning KO as was the case in 84.

 

We're on the same page then. Despite Tommy's vehement protestations to the contrary, Ray's late round body attack was visibly devastating. While SRL was an excellent and badly underrated body puncher, Duran ranked with the likes of Frazier, Palomino, Dempsey, Arguello and Zale when it came to going downstairs, and I can't see Tommy's body taking that for 15 rounds at 147. (Now that I think of it, how does Hearns survive the toughness, stamina and body attacks of Palomino and Zale? Few question that Hearns was greater than they were, but head to head?)

 

Great post

 

The counterargument is that Roy Jones made Bernard Hopkins (top 5 all-time middleweight) and James Toney (competitive as a heavyweight into his 40s) look ordinary in near shutouts, and neither of those fighters were exactly light punchers. Are we really going to say that Monzon was significantly superior a boxer to those guys in terms of skill? His record is better but his boxing skills are inferior to Bernard and James IMO.

Jones was only "chinny" against a couple of big light-heavyweights late in his career, after going from 200lbs down to 175. Monzon is a 160 lb fighter. Monzon chain smoked. Jones was probably the finest conditioned athlete in boxing history, and once played a pro basketball game on the same day as a boxing fight. 15 rounds would favour Jones, not Monzon. Jones had huge power at super-middle and very good power at light-heavy, so at 160 he'd be a Hearns/Jackson-like beast, easily capable of a one-punch KO over Monzon (who has hit the deck in his career). For KOs the bigger, harder-hitting, faster, 2-handed puncher Roy Jones is the favourite to end the fight inside the distance, not Monzon.

And are we really to believe that the smaller, far slower Monzon would be able to decision Jones, who rarely lost a round? Amazing as it might seem, Carlos might actually only have a puncher's chance in this matchup. I could easily see it going like Chavez-Whitaker. It could well be a bit like a faster, harder-hitting, prime 175 lbs version of Sugar Ray Leonard vs Marvin Hagler with a weaker chin.

Jones certainly has slightly weak opposition overall, but he beat two all-time greats who have performed well at higher weights into their 40s, and beat a legitimate heavyweight contender/alphabet champion. Monzon has no such victories on his record. Carlos was more consistent vs better fighters on average, but never moved up and never beat an elite fighter. Roy has a heavyweight belt and 2 total dominations of ATG multi-division champions.

Roy Jones Jr is in the small category of fighters like Whitaker who could not only beat ATG fighters, but totally dominate them and make them look ordinary. Most fights he hardly even had to try. That's what sick speed and reflexes does for you (as long as they last).

 

I think Monzon beat fighters just as much with physical ability as Pea did.And not taht far away from Jones either really.It just wasn't as obvious as TEH HANDSPEEEEED!!!!, with him.

 

Hopkins was nowhere near a Top5 middleweight when he fought Jones. That win get's seriously overated.

btw. Hopkins himself admitted he would have lost to Monzon.

 

Duran
Ali
Hearns for me same reason as you putting hagler

 

Ali
JC Superstar
Duran

 

How many of you who have viewed Valdez-Briscoe II, Monzon-Valdez II, and Monzon-Briscoe II (along with a number of Bad Bennie's knockout wins) agree with Jersey Joe that RJJ would be "easily capable of a one-punch KO over Monzon," and would have the advantage over 15 rounds at a weight limit of 160 pounds? (He may have had huge power at 168, but we're discussing the middleweight division here.)