Top 3 P4p Boxers In History

It was close between Leonard and Robinson, but I think Leonards movement, and ability to be so slippary when needed, just has him above Robinson.

 

... there is another thread about Robinson out here... check it out and keep an open mind. You'll find in time that the idea of Leonard being greater than Robinson just cannot float in rational waters.

 

Why in gods name does anyone have Ali on a P4P list period?

Is the actual meaning of the word being completely ignored or what?

 

Give your definition.

And to Bill Butcher, on film Duran looks far better than Ali IMO, much more complete, but resume is where Ali holds the edge to have a shot at being ranked above him. Same with Benny Leonard. ATG rankings are based on resume for the most part.

 

I absolutely agree with you.

If not for his eye injury and the somewhat cautious managing of his career I think he might have established himself somewhere in that vicinity, though. He really had a lot going for him.

 

1. Pernell Whitaker: Outstanding all around skills one of if not the best defensive boxers in history. Very acurtute puncher with a very good work rate. His lack of power above lightweight hurts his standing a little bit, but at his best was wining fights 12-0. Most reasonable people consder his loss to Jose Luis Ramirez and draw against Julio Cesar Chavez as robberies. and his loss to Oscar De La Hoya was more competive than the score cards and could have reasonaily won that fight.. He also might have been past his prime by than. The losses to Felix Trinidad and Carlos Bojorquez were both failed comback atempts. He was winning against Bojorquez at the time of the stopage. Whitaker won championships/tittles in in four weight classes 135, 140, 147 and 154.
2. Benny Leonard: Like those of you who rank Harry Greb highly I trust the written record on Leonard.He could do it all in the ring box when he needed to punch with power when called for, make a counterpuncher lead and get off first on a lead puncher. He was a master in the art of hitting and not geting hit. In my opinion Leonard was more domanant at any one weight (lightweight) than any boxer in history and yes that includs Joe Louis at heavyweight.
3. Sugar Ray Robinson: I can't think of a better offensive boxer in history mebay Roy Jones Jr. From the film of him that I have seen he was a presure fighter with the speed and talent to box any he chose.
So why amy comiting boxing blasphmy in not ranking Robinson as the #1 p4p of all time? It is his losses as middleweight champion that bother me. i realize that in 200 fights and 1403 rounds even the best are going to have a loss or two sometime. Benny Leonard in 217 bouts and 1573 rounds had 19 losses Robinson also lost 19 times. While Leonard never lost a lightweight championship fight he did however lose a welterweight champion fight to Jack Britton. Robinson lost middleweight championship fights to Randy Turpin, Gene Fullmer, Carmen Basilio and Paul Pender twice. All of these boxers were very good espicialy Fullmer and Basillo but none of them were on Robinson's level.
I beleve that at their best Whitaker, Leonard and Robinson could beat anyone they faced if they brought their "A" game. Leonard and Whitaker allways did Robinson sometimes did not and that is an important influence on my rankings.

 

Hagler
Jones
Camacho

:smoke

 

Hagler
Greb
Jones


Prime Hagler second to none. Greb just below then the astronomically talented and obscenely quick Roy Jones round out the top 3.

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All heed

Jones at 3 hey

 

1)Willie Pep 126
2)Henry Armstrong 130
3)Ray Robinson 147
4)Greb 160
5)Sam Langford 170
6 Rocky Marciano 180

 

Robinson
Armstrong
Ali

 

No, the reason why Ali is on most p4p lists is because of his celebrity. Ali is an icon that transcends the sport, he is nostalgia, he is charismatic, he is the darling of the left wing. He was the third most recognizable face in the world behind Jesus and Elvis, and probably still is.

I'd bet you that many of those lists that include him do so because they count assets that are irrelevant -like "impact on the sport". Either that or they are put together by dummies. You're no dummy but your reasoning just doesn't work.

ANY p4p list that includes Muhammad Ali -or any HW in the TOP 5 all time- screams the use of faulty measures, membership in the Ali cult, youthfulness or the basic lack of historical knowledge of boxing. There may be a few exceptions, even on ESB, but I have a real problem with it.

I won't revisit a debate that was already had out here several times about why the HW is not the most formidable, but the weakest division. Your argument about unlimited pounds is overcome by several facts -including the smaller pool, lesser stamina, lesser speed, lesser punch output, and overreliance on power of HWs. Being a WW has always been tougher than being a HW in boxing.