Canzoneri - Definitely think he can be considered. I think he could be out-boxed or overwhelmed but anything in between them two extremes he copes with superbly. Arguello - I'm starting to think maybe Featherweight was Arguello's best division. He was much more physical and mobile, and combined elements of pressure fighting to his boxer-puncher style. I think he could definitely be out-boxed here though, but his power really keeps him in the equation. Pedroza - One of the most adaptable ring generals I have seen. Thing is, he was a jack of all trades but was he really a master of any? I can see the great out-fighters out boxing him and the great inside fighters taking him on the inside, but he could outbox the inside fighter or out fight the outside fighter, so it cancels itself out. I think the other more well rounded fighters probably do him in like Kid Chocolate, and anyone who is a better ring general probably beats him. Saldivar - A tough one. I think the monster punchers can take him out, I'll say that right now. I also think the pressure fighters could beat him, the likes of Armstrong would probably be hell for him IMO. The boxers he has a better time with, I just don't see him coping consistently with the best fighters at Featherweight who show a wide range of styles. Saying that I am a massive admirer of Saldivar. Chocolate - A guy I think very highly of. I think he has the right technical skills and athletic ability to give anyone hell. He'd possibly be the best pick for 4th IMO. Dixon is a great shout, although I do not know too much about him. Would you include Driscoll in the running also? Another thing, do you think Ernesto Marcel could be considered?
If you're including Dixon, yes, you must include Driscoll. I'm afraid I don't know enough about Marcel, he's a bit of a blind spot with me as far as the details go. I'd need to bow to others on that one. If I was going to pick one of these guys I think I'd go with Canzoneri. But like I said, you could swap him out for a number of fighters. Attell?
Dunno, I think Driscoll sort of eliminates Attel from the discussion to be honest. Although I'm not to 'up' on Attel so I may be wrong. I think Canzoneri probably deals with the widest range of styles, its between him and Chcolate IMO.
Attell has all those defences though. And all those styles. Additionally, i'm not for this idea that knocking a guy off eliminates him if you are there or there-abouts yourself. Some examples. I'd say Liston is due consideration although Ali knocked him off. I'd say Pep (!) is due consideration although Saddler knocked him off. I'd say Dixon is due consideration although McGovern knocked him off!! I'd say Lavigne is due consideration although Erne knocked him off. You know.
Thing is though Driscoll beat Attel at his own game, he out-boxed him thouroughly as well. If Saddler had out-boxed Pep or McGovern out boxed Dixon, surely that would knock them off?
I think that's not unreasonable, but it also becomes a matter of depth, and of circumstance. I think it IS possible for a great puncher to be out-punched and still be worthy of consideration depending upon circumstance. If Liston had out-punched Louis, for example.
Lopez could beat Saddler but I don´t think it would happen most of the time. Perhaps twice in 10 fights. Well, yes, Sanchez is proven against all styles but not against a certain class of fighter. I don´t like picking a fighter who never had to prove himself against an atg over an atg. When you fight an atg, most of the time you must dig deeper, work harder, be better than ever before. Did Sanchez ever prove he can do that? I like him and I´d love to include him but this keeps me wondering. I thought most people would think so. His awkward style, power and chin is something not often coming together though. He is not in the class of the people discussed here but I thought I throw him out anyway to here some opinions. He has the same problem as Sanchez though. Totally forgot about Canzoneri, Chocolate and Arguello fighting at fw. All 5/6 are good choices. But I´d exclude fighters who fought under clearly different rules. Too many variables to judge this fairly. How did you score Canzoneri-Chocolate I? I go forth and back on this one. Big fan of both fighters, although Chocolate overtook Canzi recently. Such a beautiful fighter to watch.
Styles make fights, I think if you matched a top10 in a league each would pick up multiple losses. IE, Pacquaio would always beat Barrera, Saddler, Arguello and Saldivar but probably lose to Pep, Chocolate and Morales. Pedroza and Sanchez are very strong H2H. Hamed at his best H2H would beat a fair share of top fighters, especially anyone who engaged him Pep has amazing skill but his losses to Saddler who I don't rate, makes me question how he'd handle other highly physical fighters. In terms of skill he should beat the lot
What I think. I think Lopez has a good style to beat Saddler, just Saddler is better. I'm not sure. You have Wilfredo Gomez and Danny Lopez in there, ok Lopez may not be an ATG or that hard to beat with Sanchez's style but he is a very good fighter. I think against Gomez he showed himself against an ATG. The big thing I worry about though is his trouble with more boxer types. I think this is his undoing. Skill level lets him down and he is not that good enough of a puncher to have a punchers chance IMO. Fair enough. I think guys like Dixon and Driscoll were very advanced for their day and would easily be able to fight today without altering their style, though. Changes every time I watch it. Normally one point either way, the more I watch it thought, the more I think Chocolate won. But the first time I seen it, I thought Canzoneri won.
I always saw the McGovern fight as enhancing Dixons case. When McGovern was going through all the top fighters of the period in 1-4 rounds, in thier primes, and ageing Dixon was the only person able to give him a serious argument! Dixon is still a bit of an unknown quantity though!
Anyone think Olivares could sneak into the top 4. I know it is an odd shout, but I do think you could sneak him in, and it would take a lot of supposing and speculation. In his first bout with Chacon he really looks $100. He starts slow picking his shots, as Chacon goes to war, and as his shots start having effect he ups the pressure and picks Chacon apart with lovely, savage and accurate shots. As an offensive machine, I really think he is second to none. Also in his bout with Arguello, which you could argue he is a good bit past his prime, he shows some really good boxing skills and is winning through 12 rounds, and winning well. I think he could give some of the greatest Featherweights a run for their money and beat a fair few of them. The only thing that lets him down is his chin, could he stand up to a semi-powerful puncher at the top level? Also unrelated point, if I changed the question to, 'The top 4 H2H Featherweights over 10 rounds.' How would that change your rankings?
Gomez was an atg but not an atg featherweight. Once above his natural weight and he was quite beatable. :huh I think he is one of the guys who could knockout anybody. :good