Top 400 All Time Greats

trampie · Feb 22, 2009

trampie said: ↑

Its official DINAMITA's list is CRAP

Not only does my list check out against the IBRO's lists better than DINAMITA's but my list also checks out better than DINAMITA'S list against two of ESB 'Gods' lists, I have traced the 'Zeus' of the ESB forum, sweet_scientists top 100 list and also a disciple of sweet_scientist, McGrain's top 100 list.

I compared mine and DINAMITA's top 100 against sweet_scientist and McGrain's top 100 and this is what i found :-

I had 11 boxers in my top 100 that was not in sweet_scientist's top 100.
DINAMITA had 20 boxers in his top 100 that was not in sweet_scientists top 100.

I had 20 boxers not in McGrain's top 100, DINAMITA had 20 boxers not in McGrains top 100.

I was advised by TommyV to check out McGrains list, when i found it, McGrain gave and i quote ''a special thanks to Sweet Scientist'', Sweet Scientist had given McGrain suggestions for his list.

So there we have it, a lesson for a lot of people on this thread just because DINAMITA has done over 7000 posts and i have done only 200 and DINAMITA is aggressive and opinionated, it does not mean he is right, do not follow his lead like sheep as you will look as foolish as he does now ?

I am no expert but i knew my list was not '****' as it checked out better than DINAMITA's list against IBRO's list,
but thanks to TommyV i now know my list checks out better than DINAMITA's list compared to sweet_scientist's list and is on a par with DINAMITA's list compared to McGrain's list .
Click to expand...

Still awaiting your comments DINAMITA

trampie · Feb 22, 2009

trampie said: ↑

sweet_scientist has Packey McFarland at #37
McGrain has Packey McFarland #57
trampie has Packey McFarland #43
DINAMITA does not have Packey McFarland in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Jim Driscoll at #36
McGrain has Jim Driscoll at #69
trampie has Jim Driscoll at #45
DINAMITA does not have Jim Driscoll in his top 100

sweet_scientist has George Dixon at #49
McGrain has George Dixon at #31
trampie has George Dixon at #35
DINAMITA does not have George Dixon in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Abe Attell at #71
McGrain has Abe Attell at #56
trampie has Abe Attell at #65
DINAMITA does not have Abe Attell in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Beau Jack at #85
McGrain has Beau Jack at #81
trampie has Beau Jack at #78
DINAMITA does not have Beau Jack in his top 100

Some of these boxers are top 50 ATG, not boxers in the 90's that may just miss the top 100 cut on some lists ? :roll:
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Still awaiting your comments DINAMITA

trampie · Feb 22, 2009

trampie said: ↑

sweet_scientist has Hagler above Hopkins
McGrain has Hagler above Hopkins
trampie has Hagler above Hopkins
DINAMITA ranks Hopkins above Marvelous Marvin :roll:

sweet_scientist has Sugar Ray Leonard above Monzon
McGrain has Sugar Ray Leonard above Monzon
trampie has Sugar Ray Leonard above Monzon
DINAMITA has Monzon above Sugar Ray :nono
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Still awaiting your comments DINAMITA

trampie · Feb 22, 2009

trampie said: ↑

DINAMITA, do you think the International Boxing Research Organization list is **** ?

DINAMITA, do you think sweet_scientist list is **** ?

DINAMITA, do you think McGrain list is **** ?

My list compares with IBRO's list much better than your list.
My list compares with sweet_scientist list much better than your list.
My list compares with McGrains list as well as your list.:roll:
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Still awaiting your comments DINAMITA

sweet_scientist · Feb 22, 2009

Trampie, I wont look at your top 100 because youve probably sourced it from others and made it look semi respectable, but you seem to have some utterly illogical placings which tend to make me think that you dont really know that much about the sport, and are merely copying lists that you see about the place.

For instance, how can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Acelino Freitas over Johnny Famechon?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Juan Martin Coggi or Johnny Nelson over Meldrick Taylor?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Alfonso Zamora over Kostya Tszyu?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Fabrice Tiozzo over someone like Buddy McGirt?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Barry McGuigan over someone like Jeff Fenech?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Pone Kingpetch 150 odd places above someone like Hiroyuki Ebihara?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Khaosai Galaxy over Lupe Pintor?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Lloyd Honeyghan 60 places over Don Curry?

Theres literally hundreds of other examples I could bring up but these will do to illustrate my point.

Making lists is a fun thing to do, and I congratulate you on your endeavour to make such a long, long list, but a little friendly advice mate: You should learn to walk before you attempt to fly. Spend a little more time learning about fighters and their accomplishments before attempting something so impossible at the best of times.

And dont simply copy-cat other posters lists on boxing forums. Look at them, question them, and come to your own understanding based on KNOWLEDGE of the game, not some random shuffling.

Cheers.

DINAMITA · Feb 23, 2009

DINAMITA said: ↑

His placings of Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson are worse, but the Wilde over Charles decision is one that gets me personally because I am a big Charles fan.

I mean, Wilde 5 places above Charles? Has Trampie ever heard of a little thing called resume??

(there are many other
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choices if you can be bothered going through his list...

- Marvin Hagler above Archie Moore and Mickey Walker (no, he definitely has not heard of resume it seems)

- Larry Holmes above guys like Emile Griffith, Alexis Arguello & Kid Gavilan - totally unjustifiable

- Marciano, J.Dempsey, J.Johnson have all clearly been rated on how famous they are, as their positions are far too high

- Joe Calzaghe is almost SEVENTY places above Manny Pacquiao and at least THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY places above Juan Manuel Marquez. So the Wilde decision it seems is indicative of a little Welsh bias. I can accept anyone thinking Calzaghe is greater than Pac or JMM even though I would disagree, but the gaps between Cal and Pac/Marquez are ludicrous

- Brace yourself... Hamed (185th), Junior Jones, Sharmba Mitchell and Cory Spinks are all higher than Wlad Klitschko AND are all in this list whereas Juan Manuel Marquez doesn't make it at all!! And it's not just an oversight, Trampie says elsewhere on this thread that JMM didn't make the cut!!

There are many other weak choices, but it would take hours to go through them all, and I don't have the energy or interest.

:admin Jones, Spinks, Mitchell all make it comfortably and JMM doesn't even make it!?!?! I'm sorry, but I cannot take such a list seriously at all.

Garbage.

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No answer to any of this Trampie? Didn't think so.

DINAMITA · Feb 23, 2009

sweet_scientist said: ↑

Trampie, I won’t look at your top 100 because you’ve probably sourced it from others and made it look semi respectable, but you seem to have some utterly illogical placings which tend to make me think that you don’t really know that much about the sport, and are merely copying lists that you see about the place.

For instance, how can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Acelino Freitas over Johnny Famechon?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Juan Martin Coggi or Johnny Nelson over Meldrick Taylor?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Alfonso Zamora over Kostya Tszyu?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Fabrice Tiozzo over someone like Buddy McGirt?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Barry McGuigan over someone like Jeff Fenech?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Pone Kingpetch 150 odd places above someone like Hiroyuki Ebihara?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Khaosai Galaxy over Lupe Pintor?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Lloyd Honeyghan 60 places over Don Curry?

There’s literally hundreds of other examples I could bring up but these will do to illustrate my point.

Making lists is a fun thing to do, and I congratulate you on your endeavour to make such a long, long list, but a little friendly advice mate: You should learn to walk before you attempt to fly. Spend a little more time learning about fighters and their accomplishments before attempting something so impossible at the best of times.

And don’t simply copy-cat other posters’ lists on boxing forums. Look at them, question them, and come to your own understanding based on KNOWLEDGE of the game, not some random shuffling.

Cheers.

Click to expand...

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Junior Jones, Cory Spinks and Sharmba Mitchell ranked above Wladimir Klitschko and Juan Manuel Marquez? JEFF HARDING over Sumbu Kalambay??

I refuse to believe anyone who has even been a casual fan of boxing in the past 20 years can think that.

The Classic consensus has spoken. Trampie: your list is dire. :good

DINAMITA · Feb 23, 2009

sweet_scientist said: ↑

Trampie, I won’t look at your top 100 because you’ve probably sourced it from others and made it look semi respectable, but you seem to have some utterly illogical placings which tend to make me think that you don’t really know that much about the sport, and are merely copying lists that you see about the place.

For instance, how can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Acelino Freitas over Johnny Famechon?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Juan Martin Coggi or Johnny Nelson over Meldrick Taylor?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Alfonso Zamora over Kostya Tszyu?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Fabrice Tiozzo over someone like Buddy McGirt?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Barry McGuigan over someone like Jeff Fenech?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Pone Kingpetch 150 odd places above someone like Hiroyuki Ebihara?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Khaosai Galaxy over Lupe Pintor?

How can anyone that knows the sport rank someone like Lloyd Honeyghan 60 places over Don Curry?

There’s literally hundreds of other examples I could bring up but these will do to illustrate my point.

Making lists is a fun thing to do, and I congratulate you on your endeavour to make such a long, long list, but a little friendly advice mate: You should learn to walk before you attempt to fly. Spend a little more time learning about fighters and their accomplishments before attempting something so impossible at the best of times.

And don’t simply copy-cat other posters’ lists on boxing forums. Look at them, question them, and come to your own understanding based on KNOWLEDGE of the game, not some random shuffling.

Cheers.

Click to expand...

This really will BREAK Trampie's desperate lack of belief in himself, as his comments about "me and Sweetscientist sing from the same hymn sheet" in an attempt to show how good his own list is - how embarrassing does that look now!?

trampie · Feb 23, 2009

The top 100 is in some sort of order,places 100-200 is difficult to categorize and places 200-400 is virtually impossible to rank in order. I admit the lower down the list the less effort has gone into ranking the boxers, if i am missing somebody or i have a 'doubler' or there a rankings that are clearly wrong, let me know and i will change them, all comments welcome.

DINAMITA can you read :roll:, the above passage is from the 1st post of the thread.

TOP 100 - ''IN SOME SORT OF ORDER''
PLACES 100-200 - ''DIFFICULT TO CATEGORIZE''
PLACES 200-400 - ''VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO RANK''

Why are you bumping your gums about boxers way outside the top100 :roll:,
the placings that are ''in some kind of order'' are the top 100, and for the umpteenth time, my top 100 stands up better than your top 100 in comparison to sweet_scientist's list and my top 30 stands up better than your top 30 incomparison to IBRO's top 30.

So if you think my placings between 200-400 are poor, i never claimed otherwise , note the quote from the original post '' i admit the lower down the list the less effort has gone into ranking the boxers''.

Some of your points concerning some of boxers ranked between 200-400 may need addressing, so you can advise me on where you think the likes of Kalambay, Honeyghan and Pintor should rank ?.

So what about my concerns over your top 100 then, you have not answered any of them yet, so i will list them again for you in the post below.

trampie · Feb 23, 2009

trampie said: ↑

sweet_scientist has Packey McFarland at #37
McGrain has Packey McFarland #57
trampie has Packey McFarland #43
DINAMITA does not have Packey McFarland in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Jim Driscoll at #36
McGrain has Jim Driscoll at #69
trampie has Jim Driscoll at #45
DINAMITA does not have Jim Driscoll in his top 100

sweet_scientist has George Dixon at #49
McGrain has George Dixon at #31
trampie has George Dixon at #35
DINAMITA does not have George Dixon in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Abe Attell at #71
McGrain has Abe Attell at #56
trampie has Abe Attell at #65
DINAMITA does not have Abe Attell in his top 100

sweet_scientist has Beau Jack at #85
McGrain has Beau Jack at #81
trampie has Beau Jack at #78
DINAMITA does not have Beau Jack in his top 100

Some of these boxers are top 50 ATG, not boxers in the 90's that may just miss the top 100 cut on some lists ? :roll:
Click to expand...

Like i said on post 99 DINAMITA, you tell me where the likes of Kalambay,Honeyghan and Pintor should be ranked and i will look at changing the rankings, now its your turn, can you tell me why the above 5 boxers are not in your top 100, when sweet_scientist and McGrain obviously think like it do, that they belong on the list ?
Thanks in advance, i look forward to your reply.:good

trampie · Feb 23, 2009

trampie said: ↑

The top 100 is in some sort of order,places 100-200 is difficult to categorize and places 200-400 is virtually impossible to rank in order. I admit the lower down the list the less effort has gone into ranking the boxers, if i am missing somebody or i have a 'doubler' or there a rankings that are clearly wrong, let me know and i will change them, all comments welcome.

The above passage is from the 1st post of the thread.

TOP 100 - ''IN SOME SORT OF ORDER''
PLACES 100-200 - ''DIFFICULT TO CATEGORIZE''
PLACES 200-400 - ''VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO RANK''

Note the quote from the original post '' i admit the lower down the list the less effort has gone into ranking the boxers''.

Click to expand...

sweet_scientist just noticed your recent post, did you read the foot note at the bottom of the list of 400 boxers on the original post ???
between places 100-200 ''DIFFICULT'' and between places 200-400 ''VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE'' did you not notice that i admitted ''the lower down the list the less effort has gone into ranking the boxers''.

There has been no copying of lists, you will not find a top 200 on the net, leave alone a top 400, i did use the IBRO lists as a check, to try and make sure that i did not leave any top flight boxers off the list, i would say in total that they would only have about 150 boxers listed.

You yourself left Jim Jeffries off your list, he is #74 on my list, a real schoolboy error !!! on your part , in fairness you did reply by saying ''he slipped through my clutchess he belongs''.

Pasted below are my comments about your list :-
Benny Leonard #4 {no problem, i like Benny underrated by most}
Bob Fitzsimmons #34 {a bit low ?}
Mickey Walker #24 {i was critized for having him at #18}
Harry Wills {outside the top 115 ?}
Marvin Hagler #13 {very high ?}
Lennox Lewis #114 {very low ?}
Manny Pacquaio {nowhere to be seen in the top 218, currently i think he is over rated}
James J Jeffries {not in top 218, i know boxrec have him listed as only having 21 fights {18 wins, 2 draws and 1 defeat}, 2 wins against Fitzsimmons, and 2 wins over both James J Corbett and Tom Sharkey as well as a win against Peter Jackson, his only loss coming against Jack Johnson in one of the most famous fights ever after been retired for about 6 years.}

So if you are worried i have copied your list, worry no more, everyone of my remarks above is reflected on my list, i have Fitzsimmons #12 you have him at #34 and i have Lennox Lewis #47 you have him at #114, by and large i like your list but your ranking of those two boxers is pathetic, even DINAMITA has Fitzsimmons #14 and Lennox Lewis #37, although we have a remarkable high number of the same boxers in our top 100, the order is quite different and if i was to be influenced by anybody, with respect it would not be by you.
You are obviously American and your ranking of British boxers is way out, as well your rankings of Fitzsimmons and Lewis's you have the 'Mighty Atom' ranked to high and Freddie Welsh an incredible #105, when he beat Jim Driscoll #36 on your list :nut {i now Driscoll was DQ'd, but he was losing the fight anyway thats why he stuck the head in},Freddie Welsh also had a win over Benny Leonard #4 on your list, the more i look at these illogical placings the more i think you should spend some time learning about different fighters and their accomplishments, no offence meant just some friendly advice.

DINAMITA · Feb 23, 2009

Trampie, you really are coming across as a desperate obsessive now. Your list is dire, the consensus have spoken, and persistently arguing about it is not going to change anyone's mind. The litany of AWFUL choices to be found on this thread are just too bad and too numerous to defend. Just let it go mate, and save your flimsy credibility so you will taken seriously on other threads. Really crap list. Move on.

sweet_scientist · Feb 23, 2009

trampie said: ↑

sweet_scientist just noticed your recent post, did you read the foot note at the bottom of the list of 400 boxers on the original post ???
between places 100-200 ''DIFFICULT'' and between places 200-400 ''VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE'' did you not notice that i admitted ''the lower down the list the less effort has gone into ranking the boxers''.

There has been no copying of lists, you will not find a top 200 on the net, leave alone a top 400, i did use the IBRO lists as a check, to try and make sure that i did not leave any top flight boxers off the list, i would say in total that they would only have about 150 boxers listed.

You yourself left Jim Jeffries off your list, he is #74 on my list, a real schoolboy error !!! on your part , in fairness you did reply by saying ''he slipped through my clutchess he belongs''.

Pasted below are my comments about your list :-
Benny Leonard #4 {no problem, i like Benny underrated by most}
Bob Fitzsimmons #34 {a bit low ?}
Mickey Walker #24 {i was critized for having him at #18}
Harry Wills {outside the top 115 ?}
Marvin Hagler #13 {very high ?}
Lennox Lewis #114 {very low ?}
Manny Pacquaio {nowhere to be seen in the top 218, currently i think he is over rated}
James J Jeffries {not in top 218, i know boxrec have him listed as only having 21 fights {18 wins, 2 draws and 1 defeat}, 2 wins against Fitzsimmons, and 2 wins over both James J Corbett and Tom Sharkey as well as a win against Peter Jackson, his only loss coming against Jack Johnson in one of the most famous fights ever after been retired for about 6 years.}

So if you are worried i have copied your list, worry no more, everyone of my remarks above is reflected on my list, i have Fitzsimmons #12 you have him at #34 and i have Lennox Lewis #47 you have him at #114, by and large i like your list but your ranking of those two boxers is pathetic, even DINAMITA has Fitzsimmons #14 and Lennox Lewis #37, although we have a remarkable high number of the same boxers in our top 100, the order is quite different and if i was to be influenced by anybody, with respect it would not be by you.
You are obviously American and your ranking of British boxers is way out, as well your rankings of Fitzsimmons and Lewis's you have the 'Mighty Atom' ranked to high and Freddie Welsh an incredible #105, when he beat Jim Driscoll #36 on your list :nut {i now Driscoll was DQ'd, but he was losing the fight anyway thats why he stuck the head in},Freddie Welsh also had a win over Benny Leonard #4 on your list, the more i look at these illogical placings the more i think you should spend some time learning about different fighters and their accomplishments, no offence meant just some friendly advice.
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So basically your top 100 or so is in order and then you were just throwing names out there? With what goal? That others would try and put them in order for you?

Or do you think that the guys from 200-400 are interchangeable, given their 'impossibility' to rank? To me it looked like they had SOME order, but it also had plenty of WTF'ness to it.

Are you hoping for someone to help you order them, or comment on them? Mate WHERE THE **** to begin!

How about you give us an attempt to order them before throwing them out there, and then we'll have a talk, deal?

About my list, sure there's errors and oversights, as there is on everyone's, I'm not claiming to be perfect by a long shot.

I will say though that Freddie Welsh was a lightweight, and Jim Driscoll was a featherweight. You're not going to tell me you rank Sammy Angott over Willie Pep are you?

Welsh has a great resume, fought everyone under the sun, but he lost to plenty of guys too, and on the whole, I think Jim had the better skills of the two, and was regarded the better fighter of the two by many who saw plenty of both.

By the way, I'm not American, I'm Australian.

trampie · Feb 23, 2009

sweet_scientist, YES YES YES AND YES AGAIN, you have got it, by the way i am not taking the **** or mucking about, you have got it :happy

My top 100 is in order, YES

I did want people to advise me how to rank the boxers between 200-400 , YES

They are in a very rough order, {200-400} YES

Not only would i like you boys to 'order' them, that is what i always wanted, YES

Sorry for the slow responce been walking the dog, where in Oz are you from ? been over there a couple of times, do you like Rugby and Cricket ?

trampie · Feb 23, 2009

DINAMITA there is going to be no moving on , my list {top 100} is twice as good as your list {FACT}

When are you going to justify to this forum not having,
Dixon,McFarland,Driscoll,Attell and Beau Jack in your top 100 ?

Come on we are still waiting, anybody can criticise like you are doing ?

Tell everybody why those 5 boxers should not be in a top 100 ?

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