How about Floyd Mayweather, Chavez, Whitaker, Roy Jones jr and Lewis (in no particular order)? Is that reasonable, or should maybe de la Hoya, Hopkins, Holyfield, Shane Mosley or even Azumah Nelson take one or more of those places? Does Toney and Eubanks deserve a mention?
#1: Pernell Whitaker #2: Julio Cesar Chavez #3: Roy Jones Jr #4: Floyd Mayweather #5: Marco Antonio Barrera
1 - Pernell Whitaker 2 - Roy Jones Junior 3 - Julio Cesar Chavez 4 - Evander Hollyfield 5 - Floyd Mayweather
Is Holyfield's placing due in part to his time as a cruiser? Are you taking into account he became the first to unify the cruiser title in 1988? Or do you think that his accomplishments in HW is enough?
His run at cruiser is absolutley crucial to his placing. Makes him champ, linear champ at two weights. He's the best cruiser ever and top 15 at HW ever.
Agreed. Can't discount that as it was part of his career. He was better cruiserweight than he was a heavyweight even though he became a marqee fighter as a heavyweight. He grabbed the attention of the public there for obvious reasons.
What would you consider Holyfield's greatest win at Heavyweight? I think it was Riddick Bowe. Mike Tyson had slowed down significantly after being locked up, and Holmes was shot to peices. He shouldn't have even been fighting. Some people in his first bout with Lewis believe he deserved the decision. Where do you stand on this?
Between the Bowe rematch and the first Tyson fight. Holyfield was an underdog for both enocunters but he was an even bigger odds against when he stepped into the ring with Tyson. Also take into account that everyone in the game thought that Holyfield was shot, mainly based on his third fight with Bowe, a stoppage loss, and an average performance against Czyz. The expectation levels were further down the meter before he faced Tyson than for the Bowe rematch. Holyfield was the type of fighter that needed a challenge to get the best out of himself, hence the inconsistent time he had as a heavyweight. Injuries coming into fights, Bowe III - hepatitis C, Lewis I - an injured arm. IMO he also fought stupidly against Bowe in their first fight and more than likely underestimated Moorer when he lost the title. If Holyfield came into a fight injury free and having something to prove, he was a dangerous ombre. Douglas, Bowe II, Tyson I, Moorer II, and Lewis II. Holmes shot to pieces? Not sure about that one. Have you seen Holmes against Mercer?. Well he was anything but shot to pieces. His chin held up fine, his workrate was good for a 42 year old, and he fought intelligently. The one thing Holmes struggled to do in his early 40's was punch while on the move for long periods like he had done in his prime. Thats the reason why he suckered Mercer into attacking him while he was on the ropes. He just never had the legs to outbox Mercer behind the jab. Holmes elected to stand his ground and let his hands go. It paid off. If Holmes was shot to pieces he would never have out classed Mercer or took Holyfield 12 rounds. Past his prime? Absolutley.
1. Pernell Whitaker- Won titles in 4 divisions, and was the real champ in 2. Chavez was the real 140 lb. champion, and Norris was the real champ at 154. Still, Whitaker had good wins over Pineda at 140 and more impressively Vasquez at 154. Cleaned out the 135 lb. division. In the early 90's; many pound for pound lists had Chavez, Whitaker, Norris, and Buddy McGirt in the top 5. Whitaker beat McGirt and almost everyone counts his fight with Chavez as a victory. Whitaker also has a victory over former pound for pound contender Azumah Nelson. When you combine those names with Whitaker's not too shabby list of defeated contenders/titlists, you have the best resume of the last 20 years. 2) Julio Cesar Chavez- Was 87-0 before getting his first blemish, which was officially a draw. Winning was his habit, and he made it look inevitable. He was a 3 division champ, and arguably the greatest light welterweight ever. 3) Roy Jones Jr.- Pernell Whitaker was condidered boxing's best from September of 1993, when he drew with Chavez, to 1996 and his split decision win over Rivera. James Toney had been running 2nd to Whitaker for a bit in most of the mythical pound for pound ratings for a while. Especially after Toney defeated Barkley and former light heavyweight champion Charles Williams. Jones defeated Toney with ease, and it seemed as though everyone was waiting for a reason to anoint him boxing's best. Most did so after Whitaker's performance against Rivera. Jones held this distinction for nearly 7 years. 4. Bernard Hopkins- Some argue the last fighter to defeat him was Roy Jones. I personally thought he lost to Jermain Taylor, but looked like the better fighter in losing. I guess it is just a flaw in boxing's scoring system, but he really did look to me to be the better of the two. Anyway... He beat Tarver who had defeated Jones. I still say he beat Calzaghe. Hopkins has been near the top of the sport for a decade now, and he is still there currently. He is well into his forties. 5. Floyd Mayweather Jr.- Has a decent list of victories, and is officially undefeated. Has had a stake in the pound for pound runnings since a victory over Corrales in 2001.
The consensus 3 is pretty easy IMO, they are dominant prime fighters who looked plain invincible during it : Roy Jones Jr, Pernell Whitaker and Floyd Mayweather Jr. You can add to that list the most perfect fighter in recent years, a.k.a Ricardo Lopez and a brilliant technician Bernard Hopkins. JC Chavez also deserves a mention here.
1. Pernell Whitaker 2. Julio Cesar Chavez 3- Bernard Hopkins/Roy Jones Junior 5. Lennox Lewis honorable mentions: Evander Holyfield, Mike McCallum, James Toney, Floyd Mayweather Junior, Oscar de la Hoya.
Yeah, but since almost all his fights at cruiser was before 1988 (i e not in the last 20 years), I was wondering how much stock you put into it. But that's kind of narrow way of looking at it, perhaps.
Nah, it's probably fair. If you exclude the run based upon your criteria he sure doesn't belong there.