Top 5 Fighters on Film

I still don't think Saddler "dominated" Pep. He dominated Pep in the first fight, sure, but lost the rematch by clear margins. Had it been left at that, no one would question Pep's superiority as he managed to clearly outbox Saddler and render him ineffective despite being by all accounts past his very best. Pep however gave Saddler another shot, and was caught early, but was again outboxing Saddler until a shoulder injury. The film shows that Saddler was repeatedly holding Pep's left arm which may have caused it. The fourth fight was a farce but a decisive win for Saddler as Pep had to quit due to a bad cut on his eye. Pep then battles on with varying success while Saddler holds the title for the next 6 years, rarely defending his title.

 

I think pater is really just trying to get at who you rate as the five best on peak prime ability.Purely head to head effectiveness so to speak.

For me, post-injury Pep and Saddler, while both obviously excellent and effective, are both a bit overestimated.Not sure i would have either of them here.

 

Again, what of all the fights that Saddler lost, often to mediocre fighters whose style he simply wasn't suited to? How many other fighters was this the case with when discussing Pep? Overall, Pep was the better fighter, he was just unable to consistently overcome Saddler's mauling style at that stage of his career. However, he was able to overcome it in the rematch. In the last two fights, both of which Pep was winning, he was either injured or roughed up (through mostly illegal tactics) to the point that he simply called it off. Just bad circumstances for Pep.

Of the 5 fights Saddler had at the time he rematched Pep for the final meeting, he lost 4. That sounds to me like A) he was a terrible styles matchup, and B) Pep was past his prime by then and simply unable to deal with that kind of abuse.

The first two fights in the series are the most telling for me. Pep was blitzed in the first fight, adjusted, and won the rematch handily. After that it was all down hill.

 

How many of the Pep/Saddler fights have you seen, on film?

And Saddler's "roughing tactics" in the fights can be put in another way as well. That is "cheating".

He had enough left to beat an aging Pep, but not the likes of Del Flanagan, Paddy DeMarco, George Araujo, Chico Rosa around the time of those fights. That tells me that the styles simply didn't play into Pep's favor at that point in his career.

Of little importance IMO, particularly the third fight, considering Pep was ahead and was roughed up to the point that he actually sustained a fight ending injury.

 

How about Saddler/Flanagan on film?

I agree. It doesn't mean he wasn't a cheat though, it just means the refs were largely incompetent, and/or just extremely lenient.

He looked basically the same in the Pep footage as he has in every other fight I've seen of him. He just usually wasn't quite as dirty. He had little to no versatility, he was just extremely effective at what he did, particularly against the right fighters.

More or less. Less though, as I'm not taking away all of the credit for winning the series. I just don't think the circumstances of the bout add up equally at all, for a variety of factors.

I won't write it off, I'll just say I see it as more of a black mark on Pep than a check for Saddler.

While Saddler lost to multiple other men. I think that speaks more in favor of Pep and his all around skills/ability to adjust to a wider array of styles than the way you mean it to.

 

The only versatility I've seen Saddler show is against Charley Riley when he was actually beaten at his own game and forced to display boxing skills he rarely utilized. He usually seemed to be content on spoiling, basically doing everything he could to prevent a boxing match from taking place. That's based on the film I've seen.

Keep in mind that Pep knocked Riley out cold.

 

I still think Saddler's tactics were quite over-the-top and his DQ loss to Armond Savoie does display what could have potentially happened with a more strict referee. He was DQ'd for holding & hitting and lacing, basically what he did in every fight.

Savoie was another man who was clearly outpointed by Pep as can be seen on film.

However what can be said for Saddler is that pressure from such a tall yet physically strong fighter for his weight class can be extremely effective, see Paul Williams today for example, not that I'm directly comparing the two.

 

Think Greg meant who looked the most jaw dropping on film, on a consistent basis I assume.

E.g there are a fair few fights of Tyson looking AWESOME!

For me, the fighter who has astounded me the most times is Duran.

Not in the way that say Holyfield or Saad alwas astound me with their heroic comebacks, or many other examples, but in the way that many times watching Duran I have known that I am watching a true master at work.

However, as well as tangents go, te Saddler-Pep one on this thread has been a good one, and knowing Pater he will enjoy it too:good