Top 5 P4P Of All-Time Based On Talent/Ability - Completely Disregarding Resume?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by DINAMITA, Nov 4, 2008.


  1. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    When I am evaluating boxers in an all-time pound-for-pound sense, resume is the thing I value above all else. For me, you only prove quality by fighting and beating quality.

    However, if you did make your own top 5 completely disregarding resume and focusing solely on your own perception of a fighter's talent/ability/skills, then would this change your top 5 radically?

    I don't think there is much value in doing so really other than making an interesting list to compare to others, and I understand that the very idea is very problematic as quality of opposition is so important, I get all that so if you don't think the idea is worth doing then just don't comment.

    For those who do have an idea of who they would have in a top 5 based purely on ability and not including resume, then please post, comment and compare.

    What makes this idea interesting for me is that guys like Greb and Langford, who always (rightly) feature very high in all-time pound-for-pound lists on account of incredible resumes, have to be discounted due to the paucity of good footage of them fighting (well, at least I would have to discount them as I personally haven't seen enough of them to rate them as fighters in terms of ability).

    So, here would be my own top 5 in terms of my own perception of their talent/ability:

    1.Muhammad Ali (1965-1967)
    2.Roberto Duran (mid-late 70s up to 1980)
    3.Willie Pep (too hard to choose a time period as I have only seen a few fights of his from different years, but the skill is clear to see)
    4.Sugar Ray Leonard (1979-1982)
    5.Pernell Whitaker or Jose Napoles

    ( * I don't claim to be a boxing historian, I have seen some of but not really enough of some great fighters like Ezzard Charles and Henry Armstrong to assess them fairly, so I cannot include them.

    Also, I haven't seen Sugar Ray Robinson fight at 147, so I assessed him purely on the basis of his fights at middleweight.)



    Thoughts/opinions?
     
  2. imp4pdabest

    imp4pdabest Guest

    I thought we were talking talent!
     
  3. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    ?
     
  4. chimba

    chimba Off the Somali Coast Full Member

    20,005
    7
    Mar 8, 2007
    Hearns should be on top - Bad matchup for everyone..Speed, Power, great technically, great footwork, great hook, great straight right...Can do it all Box, Brawl, Jab...not that bad of a chin as some would have you believe.

    He is the greatest h2h fighter of all time
     
  5. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

    27,199
    93
    Dec 26, 2007
    No order:

    Roy Jones Jr.
    Roberto Duran
    Sugar Ray Robinson
    Sugar Ray Leonard
    Pernell Whitaker
     
  6. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

    82,423
    1,464
    Sep 7, 2008
    Whittaker. Young Tyson (for a HW, wow!) Ali, obviously. These are still decent guys, I don't think you will find really talented guys without decent resumes.
     
  7. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

    27,199
    93
    Dec 26, 2007
    Tell that to Leonard.
     
  8. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

    82,423
    1,464
    Sep 7, 2008
    That's pretty much perfect.

    I'd actually put Jones on top in terms of talent and ability.

    James Toney is another one.
     
  9. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

    27,199
    93
    Dec 26, 2007
    If the list was based on best fighter at using the shoulder roll to deal with swarming opponents, I'd agree. But in terms of all around skills and versatility he gets massively overrated. Pure boxers were always a big issue for him because of his sub-par footwork.
     
  10. chimba

    chimba Off the Somali Coast Full Member

    20,005
    7
    Mar 8, 2007
    I'll give the first one to Leonard, I wont get into much details how fortunate he was. Hearns as a ring tactician is his weakness.

    Second fight was just plain wrong
     
  11. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

    82,423
    1,464
    Sep 7, 2008
    as always Pea, fair enough comment.
     
  12. imp4pdabest

    imp4pdabest Guest

    If we're talking talent, Roy Jones & Mayweather have to be on that list
     
  13. ocelot

    ocelot Boxing Junkie Full Member

    11,122
    13
    Nov 21, 2007
    Willie Pep
    Sugar Ray Robinson
    Sam Langford
    Harry Greb
    Muhammed Ali
    Roy Jones, Jr.
    Sugar Ray Leonard
    Joe Calzaghe......I'm joking (have a sense of humor)
     
  14. bernie4366

    bernie4366 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,681
    22
    Aug 29, 2006
    if you're talking about pure athleticism and raw talent, how the hell can you have Duran on there? He did it with learned skills and determination.

    Ali
    RJJ
    SRR
    SRL
    Tyson or PBF

    Those would be my picks based on pure god-given athletic ability.
     
  15. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Do you think Jones had the "well-roundedness" (sorry but I can't think of a better word), the adaptability, to be considered more skilled than Napoles or Ali? I think they were more complete fighters.