The other dempsey thread got me thinking... What would your top 5 HW pre-title runs be if made to choose? Does Dempsey's crack the top 5 on some lists?
I think the criteria is pretty simple really.. Who beat the best opposition leading up to their title shot and winning the title.
good question. tyson is AMAZING if you feel he won the title with spinks. frazier to had a brilliant run...if he won it with ali
So we're counting any world recognised title? No particular order Johnson Liston Louis Dempsey Walcott
I am not so sure what everybody thinks is so great about Joe Louis's run (in an ATG sense). Starting with the Schmelling loss (which obviously wasnt impressive) he beat Sharkey, Baer and Braddock (with most others being lesser fighters). Nothing overly outstanding is it? Or am i underating his other wins in this time frame. If you can forgive draws, Johnson is hard to beat with wins over Jackson, Jeanette, Langford, Lang, Jeffords, Felix, Fitzsimmons, Flynn, Burns, Ross, Kaufman, Ketchell, Jeffries and others.
Dont follow you, he beat Burns for the title and after that they are defences? Jackson, Lang, Felix, I dont think so. McVey and Ferguson, yes. Louis beat Carnera, Pastor, Poreda, Retzlaff, Uzcuden, Ramage, Ettore as well, Jeez I think thats good. Jeffries beat Sharkey , Armstrong, Griffin, Goddard and a faded Jackson as well as draws with Choynsky and Ruhlin. Hell of a run, has to be a lock for top 5. And here's one you wont hear too often, Marvin Hart. Wins or good draws with Choynsky, Ruhlin, Gardner, Johnson, O'Brien, Armstrong, Ferguson, Carter, a damn good run IMO. Lewis beat Mason, Biggs, Weaver, Ruddock, McCrory and a host of good fighter before he met Tucker in his first "world" title shot, then before the win over Holy to unify he beat Golota, Tucker, Bruno, Mercer, McCall, Akinwande, Morrison, Briggs and drew(won?) with Holy. Surely top 5?
I guess, because i considered it a loss as ending a "winning" run. (maybe i didnt quite answer the question correctly). The Marvin Hart run is very, very interesting, I will have to look down and think about that one when i get the chance.
If it's about who beat the best opposition before they won the HW title, Jack Sharkey deserves a mention. He beat : Harry Wills George Godfrey Tommy Loughran Young Stribling Primo Carnera Jack Renault Mike McTigue Jack Delaney etc. Gene Tunney beat Harry Greb about 3 times. Lots of people here say Dempsey was running scared of Greb, so it's got to count for something on Tunney's resume, no ?
Sonny Liston had a good run, but he should have KO'd Eddie Machen really. Ingemar Johansson had already destroyed Machen in 1 round in his own pre-title days. Machen went the 12 round distance with Sonny.
Obviously Jack Dempsey's pre-title run was one of the best in history. A lot of bollocks being said on that other thread won't change the fact.
With Tyson and Frazier it's unclear what counts as 'pre-title'. Different people have different ideas on that. For Frazier it could mean pre-Mathis, or pre-Ellis, or pre-Ali. With Tyson, it's usually pre-Berbick (WBC), pre-Tucker (unified), or pre-Spinks (linear/truly undisputed). Obviously, the level of opposition beaten differs significantly at each of those milestones.