Top 50 Heavyweights 1930-1960

No ND fight would have judges. You certain they weren't fighting under ND rules? There were ND fights after this, such as Baer-Savold. Also, they had a referee, didn't they? He could be the sole judge to determine the winner, as often happened for many years after 1935 in many states, and foreign countries.

So, I think it boils down to your basis for evaluating whether these were real fights might be wrong. Why did the folks who were actually there back then, like Nat Fleischer, think these were real fights? Louis wasn't obscure, even this early in his career. There would have been reporters at ringside.

The NY Times reported the Davis fight would be an exhibition according to the NYSAC. A pretty strong source. Why again would the folks at the time consider it an exhibition? And are you saying that Louis would put his title on the line in a four round fight? It seems off-the-wall to me. Davis was an obvious exhibition. Judges could be a pro wrestling style gimmick by the promoter to make it look like something it wasn't.

 

Unfortunately, I will be busy for a while, but I'll be back to comment in depth, so please drop in now and then. Suzie might be able to respond sooner, but I'll want to anyway when I get the chance.

 

Thanks for the reply. So do you think the state laws for the locations of Louis’ fights in 1948-1950 prevented them gaining official recognition? I know that the first Walcott fight was initially going to be an exhibition too. And that the NBA announced there were no logical challengers that particular year.

 

I don't see focusing so much on Valdes or others during an exhibition tour, though. Valdes would have been a preliminary fighter back then. I think the most it is fair to say is that Louis was keeping busy, and was not totally laid off, but his weight was far above his best fighting weight, so this wasn't like real fights against top men.

I was referring to the 1935 fights. The Ring Record Book did not consider the 1948-1950 Louis appearances as anything other then exhibitions, but listed the 1935 fights as real fights. These were clearly different for them.

 

Judges are provided by the licensing commission who govern professional boxing and provide licenses and rules. You can still stage a boxing show, have your own judges it just goes down as an unlicensed fight. I think if licensed boxers are used the commission are made aware and that’s why they can go down as an exhibition. But I’m less familiar with the American set up.

 

So Joe Louis knocking out guys in some exhibitions can be counted as real fights in 1935 but joe knocking out guys in some exhibitions in 48,49 and 1950 don’t count?

There is a case to be made that Joe Louis was knocking out good class fighters in unofficial ring affairs. Joe was tangling with some very classy operators like Curtis Shepherd, Rex Layne, Henry Hall, Elmer Ray, Clarance Henry, pat Comiskey, Arturo Godoy, Billy Conn.

At the very least we must acknowledge Joe Louis was not enjoying a layoff during this period of fighting 80 times between title fights within the 1948-1950 period.

 

I’m not even looking to prove they were official pro fights. I’m just asking for acknowledgment that this was not a layoff. Joe Louis was active during this time and that he still proved to be the best heavyweight in the World during this period since he was knocking out rated fighters. Officially he was knocking them out.

 

well it’s a good line. However, the film of what Louis did to Valentino shows that Louis dealt with a common opponent of Charles in very good style.

 

"So Joe Louis knocking out guys in some exhibitions can be counted as real fights in 1935"

The folks there at the time such as Nat Fleischer accepted them as real fights, which is the bottom line for me.

The folks there at the time did not accept the 1948 and 1950 affairs as fights, but only as exhibitions.

Now modern guys are jumping into the mix, so the 1935 KO's are thrown out for some reason, but the 4 round 1944 affair between Joe Louis & Johnny Davis is held up as a real fight and title defense, despite this bit of information--

New York Times, November 11, 1944.

"Sergeant Joe Louis, world heavyweight champion, on furlough from the army after overseas service, yesterday received permission from the state athletic commission to engage in an exhibition bout as part of his current tour. The exhibition will be against Johnny Davis, Brooklynite, in Buffalo on Tuesday night."

Use common sense. Would Louis risk the heavyweight title in a four round fight? for a marginal purse?