Top 50 Lightweights of All-Time.... (help me)

I felt weird out and out saying that Laguna and Angott are my favourite lightweights. It was like I was unveiling something. Confirming myself the ultimate hipster. Everyone knows my favourite LHWs, but I feel like I never talk about Laguna and Angott. Weird.

Both are too 20 and they're not going anywhere but up.

 

Oh but seriously, do you really think Laguna is too high? I'd be all ears as to hear why.

 

I had him near shutting Ortiz out, in what is IMO, one of the best wins and performances at the poundage. It definitely helped him out here

I had him winning that, and another.

Urbana, Hernadez, Narvaez and Espinoza too.

Well, I don't really care about losses, but just to play along with you.

Ortiz - going 1-2 with him, is better than what basically anyone else was doing. Including Loi, who would've very been lucky to be 1-2 with him, let alone 2-1.

I had him beating Buchanan first time round. Close, though. I know I'm bias, but it's my scorecard still. I don't give him credit for beating him, but I do think he showed himself better. I also wouldn't take away from Laguna based on this, since I thought he won. I do think he was past his best, but he was still beating ranked guys, so it's a great win for Buchanan.

And Elorde, I don't know what to tell you. He's just a beast, and what appears to be an awful style for Laguna. I'd have included him on this list actually, but he just didn't have a long enough career at 135 to get on it.

I guess some other black marks on Laguna's record are the Espinoza loss, the Draw with Locche and the Linder loss (if you think he was still prime, which i don't).

I think he's no less than top 25, and weighing in all of the pros, vs the pros of those around him, I think he's fine where he is. Although like I say, I'm clearly pretty bias.

 

Happy with this order, but sold enough to not change things. With a convincing argument, I can definitely tweak a few things.

#50. Ray Miller
#49. Sammy Fuller
#48. Jose Luis Castillo
#47. Jose Luis Ramirez
#46. Edwin Rosario
#45. Guts Ishimatsu
#44. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
#43. Hector Camacho
#42. Esteban DeJesus
#41. Alexis Arguello
#40. Julio Cesar Chavez
#39. Elbows McFadden
#38. Wesley Ramey
#37. Joe Mandot
#36. Billy Petrolle
#35. Dave Holly
#34. Joe Shrugue
#33. Willie Ritchie
#32. Jack Kid Berg
#31. Richie Mitchell
#30. Lockport Jimmy Duffy
#29. Frank Erne
#28. Jack McAuliffe
#27. George Lavigne
#26. Jimmy Carter
#25. Charlie White
#24. Lew Tendler
#23. Ken Buchanan
#22. Rocky Kansas
#21. Barney Ross
#20. Jimmy Britt
#19. Johnny Dundee
#18. Ismael Laguna
#17. Sammy Mandell
#16. Bob Montgomery
#15. Joe Brown
#14. Willie Joyce
#13. Sammy Angott
#12. Beau Jack
#11. Lou Ambers
#10. Pernell Whitaker
#09. Henry Armstrong
#08. Freddie Welsh
#07. Ike Williams
#06. Tony Canzoneri
#05. Carlos Ortiz
#04. Roberto Duran
#03. Packey McFarland
#02. Joe Gans
#01. Benny Leonard

 

Well, I was actually questioning Brown's place myself, but a long lengthy title run has to count for something, and he did beat quite a few top contenders (one of whom almost made this list). It'd have been better for him if he'd have gotten to Jimmy Carter around the latters second title reign. I can see Duffy higher too.

Lightweight is astonishingly stacked. The fact I had another twenty fighters or so, who's calibre could be top 30 in different division is insane.

 

For anyone who's wondering why Duran isn't number one, and Benny Leonard is, this is why:

Benny Leonard, 185-22-9:

Freddie Welsh
Johnny Dundee
Rocky Kansas
Lew Tendler
Charlie White
Jimmy Duffy
Willie Richie
Ritchie Mitchell
Joe Mandot

Jack Britton
Johnny Kilbane
Soldier Bartfield
Willie Jackson
Ever Hammer
Pal Moran
Joe Welling
Frankie Callahan
Patsy Cline
Philadelphia Pal Moore

As well as seven defences of the lineal title, which I'm pretty sure is only two less than the most ever, which is Gans' nine (or thirteen, for some reason I can't put my finger on which).

That résumé is ****ing insane, though. Four top sixty P4P guys, six top 30 LW guys (nine top fifty guys; four more who were strong candidates), a top five WW, and five more who made my top 150 P4P. Bonkers.

What's more, is that he could have actually been even greater. Had he fought against Packey McFarland in 1914, and the Mickey Walker fight have been made when it was supposed to be, both fights I'd have picked him to win. Then if he wasn't DQ'd vs Britton and got the decision vs Lewis, then he could have been legitimately have been the P4P GOAT.

Obviously all of those things seem far fetched when I group them all together, but it's definitely not a stretch to say that each one could've happened.

 

Some interesting results here when you crunch the numbers.

#10. Pernell Whitaker
Has beaten one Top 50 LW

#09. Henry Armstrong
Has beaten one Top 50 LW

#08. Freddie Welsh
Has beaten six Top 50 LWs

#07. Ike Williams
Has beaten four Top 50 LWs

#06. Tony Canzoneri
Has beaten three Top 50 LWs

#05. Carlos Ortiz
Has beaten two Top 50 LWs

#04. Roberto Duran
Has beaten three Top 50 LWs

#03. Packey McFarland
Has beaten four Top 50 LWs

#02. Joe Gans
Has beaten four Top 50 LWs

#01. Benny Leonard
Has beaten nine Top 50 LWs

Obviously that's not the be all and end all, but it's definitely interesting.