Top 50 Middleweight of all Time

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Jul 11, 2015.


Page 1 of 16
  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    111,885
    45,664
    Mar 21, 2007
    In Tiers - the fighters are no tin orders in the individual tiers. Much of this is up for grabs so let's hear. Most of all, who have left out? Have a shout let me know what you think is off. This is weighted more towards achievement and resume than head to head, though that's a factor too. Who would you like to see moved up, who would you like to see moved down, who would you like to see moved in?

    If you move someone in - who would you like to see moved out?

    Tier I: Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler, Harry Greb, Sugar Ray Robinson.

    Tier II: Holman Williams, Bernard Hopkins, Stanley Ketchel, Charley Burley, Freddie Steele, Mike Gibbons

    Tier III: Mickey Walker, **** Tiger, Bob Fitzsimmons, Jake LaMotta, Tiger Flowers, Tommy Ryan, Lloyd Marshall, Teddy Yarosz.

    Tier IV: Joey Giardello, Jack Chase, Emile Griffith, Bert Lytell, Billy Papke, Jack Dempsey, Roy Jones

    Tier V: James Toney, Fred Apostolini, Georgie Abrahams, Marcel Cerdan, Tony Zale, Frank Klaus, Jack Dillon.

    Tier VI: Reggie Johnson, Les Darcey, Mike McCallum

    Tier VII: Vince Dundee, Cocoa Kid, Ken Overlin, Eddie Booker, Tommy Gibbons, Randy Turpin, Marcel Thil, Archie Moore, Billy Conn,

    Tier VIII: Ezzard Charles, Michael Nunn, Sumba Kalambay, Gene Fulmer, Philadelphia Jack O’Brien, Nino Benvenuti, Jeff Smith, Kid McCoy.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Close but no cigar: Aaron Wade, Sam Langford, Barbados Joe Walcott, Dave Sands, Kid Tunero, Billy Soose.



    Became:

    01 - Harry Greb
    02 - Carlos Monzon
    03 - Marvin Hagler
    04 - Sugar Ray Robinson
    05 - Stanley Ketchel
    06 - Mike Gibbons
    07 - Bernard Hopkins
    08 - Charley Burley
    09 - Tommy Ryan
    10 - Holman Williams
    11 - Freddie Steele
    12 - Jake LaMotta
    13 - **** Tiger
    14 - Bob Fitzsimmons
    15 - Jack Dempsey
    16 - Fred Apotoli
    17 - Teddy Yarosz
    18 - Mickey Walker
    19 - Jack Dillon
    20 - Tiger Flowers
    21 - Ken Overlin
    22 - Joey Giardello
    23 - Billy Papke
    24 - Gene Fullmer
    25 - Mike O'Dowd
    26 - Les Darcy
    27 - Bert Lytell
    28 - Frank Klaus
    29 - Emile Griffith
    30 - Nino Benvenuti
    31 - Lloyd Marshall
    32 - James Toney
    33 - Tony Zale
    34 - Billy Conn
    35 - Roy Jones Jnr.
    36 - Michael Nunn
    37 - Randy Turpin
    38 - Marcel Cerdan
    39 - Georgie Abrams
    40 - Mike McCallum
    41 - Jeff Smith
    42 - Young Corbett III
    43 - Charles McCoy
    44 - Sumbu Kalambay
    45 - Bobo Olson
    46 - Marcel Thil
    47 - Jack Chase
    48 - Jermain Taylor
    49 - Cocoa Kid
    50 - Hugo Kelly
     
    McGrain, Jul 11, 2015
    McGrain, Jul 11, 2015
    #1
  2. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

    37,067
    3,694
    Sep 14, 2005
    Great List head to head Ezzard Charles would obviously be tier 1 since he twice dominated a prime charley burley when Ezzard was a senior in high school
     
    SuzieQ49, Jul 11, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jul 11, 2015
    #2
  3. Brixton Bomber

    Brixton Bomber Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

    21,934
    6,095
    Sep 21, 2013
    RJJ schools them all. Different league, totally!
     
    Brixton Bomber, Jul 11, 2015
    Brixton Bomber, Jul 11, 2015
    #3
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    111,885
    45,664
    Mar 21, 2007
    :dead

    Regardless...

    "This is weighted more towards achievement and resume than head to head"
     
    McGrain, Jul 11, 2015
    McGrain, Jul 11, 2015
    #4
  5. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

    37,067
    3,694
    Sep 14, 2005
    I know I think the list is perfect. I would give it an A +

    But I have to throw in there that a senior in high school twice whipped s prime Charley burley at 160lb.
     
    SuzieQ49, Jul 11, 2015
    SuzieQ49, Jul 11, 2015
    #5
  6. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,850
    238
    Feb 19, 2012
    Roy jones too high. Toney beat 3 other guys on the list so I don't think you can put Jr. up there. Probably closer to the charles tier. Conn has a pretty solid resume at the weight- he might be up a tier.
     
    LittleRed, Jul 11, 2015
    LittleRed, Jul 11, 2015
    #6
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    111,885
    45,664
    Mar 21, 2007
    Two solid points.

    Roger, SuzieQ49.
     
    McGrain, Jul 11, 2015
    McGrain, Jul 11, 2015
    #7
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    111,885
    45,664
    Mar 21, 2007
    Jones beat only three ranked guys at the weight; but one of them was Hopkins.
     
    McGrain, Jul 11, 2015
    McGrain, Jul 11, 2015
    #8
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    111,885
    45,664
    Mar 21, 2007
    Some guy who didn't make it that arguably have a case:

    Lou Brouillrd, Ceferino Garcia, Al Hostak, Jimmy Bivins, Young Corbett III, Georges Carpantier, Luis Manuel Rodriguez, Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, Rodrigo Valdez, Bobo Olson, Hugo Corro, Hugo Kelly, Eddie McGoorty, Tommy Burns, Jack Sullivan, Young Peter Jackson, Genaday Golovkin, Babe Risko, Dave Shade, Solly Krieger.
     
    McGrain, Jul 11, 2015
    McGrain, Jul 11, 2015
    #9
  10. Mr Butt

    Mr Butt Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,678
    182
    May 16, 2009
    Just a thought could billy Soose maybe sneak into the bottom tier
     
    Mr Butt, Jul 11, 2015
    Mr Butt, Jul 11, 2015
    #10
  11. Mr Butt

    Mr Butt Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,678
    182
    May 16, 2009
    Haha beat me to it
     
    Mr Butt, Jul 11, 2015
    Mr Butt, Jul 11, 2015
    #11
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    111,885
    45,664
    Mar 21, 2007
    Instead of...
     
    McGrain, Jul 11, 2015
    McGrain, Jul 11, 2015
    #12
  13. Mr Butt

    Mr Butt Boxing Junkie Full Member

    14,678
    182
    May 16, 2009
    Ray leonard no , he didn't accomplish much at the weight he beat an old sliding hagler in fight where the decision is hotly debated still today
     
    Mr Butt, Jul 11, 2015
    Mr Butt, Jul 11, 2015
    #13
  14. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

    34,221
    5,868
    Apr 30, 2006
    I mentioned this on a thread in General, but it's worth noting that at the time he fought Roy, Hopkins:

    1) Had 1 USBA title defense
    2) Defeated zero top 10 contenders
    3) Was in his first title fight (as was Roy, but Roy had a far more extensive amateur pedigree)
    4) Was 2 years away from winning a title
    5) Was still going tooth and nail with a fringe world class guy like Mercado a year afterward.

    1993 Hopkins was good, borderline top 10 material, and a deserving challenger at the time. He was nothing close to what he would ultimately become, as John David Jackson (who's been a part of Hopkins' career as a sparring partner, opponent, cornerman, and, finally, trainer to an opponent) also attests to. Roy also got better, but that was when he was well past 160.
     
    Rock0052, Jul 11, 2015
    Rock0052, Jul 11, 2015
    #14
  15. lepinthehood

    lepinthehood When I'm drinking you leave me well alone banned Full Member

    52,105
    23,310
    Aug 27, 2011
    no billy joe saunders? pffff
     
    lepinthehood, Jul 11, 2015
    lepinthehood, Jul 11, 2015
    #15
Page 1 of 16