Top 50 Middleweight of all Time

"Steele already had the fractured breastbone when he lost to Apostoli and Hostak"

How did he win the three fights in between?

Anyway, wouldn't a broken bone heal in time?

Regardless, though, my main issue would be that an injury doesn't make one great--there might have been potential which the injury prevented from being fulfilled, but potential is not greatness and it is always a question whether in fact the potential would have been reached w/o the injury.

 

What? your making out as if he was a "what could have been if he had not gotten the injury" type fighter.

He retired young but had well over a hundred fights and was a veteran fighter at only 25, he had a very good resume and went on a a great unbeaten streak through middle in his prime. He fulfilled his potential and nobodys rating him highly just because of his injury...

He retired young but that dosent mean he was one of the "potential" only guys that might have gone on to do well like youre assuming.

And really who can blame him for retiring young anyway, he had a ****load of fights already, had his manager die then got the breastbone injury, it just drained him completely.

But no, Steele isnt benefitting form "potential" and a young retirement as a "what if" type fighter, thats not whats making people rank him highly. I dont think ive seen anyone say that about Steele before.

 

He definitely did well, but over a short period.

But these defeats in 1938 seem to me to be too easily dismissed.

Was he hurt going into the Apostoli fight?

How did he win the three fights between Apostoli and Hostak? which included Barth and Krieger.

Then when he fights Hostak the broken breastbone is back as the reason for a first round blow-out.

Steele is certainly an excellent fighter, but I am questioning top ten.

 

I was more interested in why Fullmer was rated so much lower than Giardello

and still hope that McGrain explains his thinking on that one.

 

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Heres my understanding on the injury/his career at the time and the fights he had with it.



- Steeles manager/father figure/mentor dies from surgery 2 weeks before the Overlin fight

- Fights Overlin, damages his cartilage on his right side where his ribs meet the breastbone.

- Fights Apostoli, Breastbone is broken by Apostoli (Steele later says was broken before the Apostoli fight, Steele was examined by a doctor before the Apostoli II fight and cartilage damage was found)

- Fights 1 month later beats Turner, Beats Barth 12 days after, has x-rays done cause he feels sluggish. Finds he has a broken breastbone.

- Fights Krieger 4 months later (from what I know (im no doctor) but from what ive read youre supposed to take 3 months of rest (6 months depending on how severe the injury is) off. Before you can return to non strenuous activites.
Since Steele had the x-rays on April 8th cause he was feeling sluggish id imagine he was starting training cause he just agreed to fight Apostoli conqueror Young Corbett III. Had the x-rays, doctors orders were no work till May 1st, so he got about 33 days of full rest. Along with possible rest after his Barth fight. The Corbett fight didnt happen and he fought Krieger. Id imagine he would of started camp soon for Krieger after his little bit of rest. But was returning to training and a full fight with the hard punching big man Krieger with at most about 2-3 months of rest when he was only supposed to start non strenuous activities in 3-6 months

The injury had only minimal time to start healing before he started up again, returning to a full fight and training so early gave little time for it to heal.
"Ignoring symptoms or adopting a 'no pain no gain' attitude is likely to cause further damage and may slow healing or prevent healing of the sternal fracture altogether."

-Then fought Hostak only a month later and gets taken out in 1.

Looking at the tale of events and how obviously the injury effected Steele, I cant hold those losses against him much, not enough to take him out of the top 10.

Its really impressive he could still hold down and get wins while like this and was very lucky to not be seriously hurt as the breastbone protects the heart and lungs.
In a sport like boxing where he could very easily have got hit there again in the already fractured/tender spot he could have got serious damage to his lungs or heart.

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Great post.

Very interesting.

If it's mainly based on resumes and accomplishments, then I've no real arguments.

But IMHO, I think Toney and McCallum are too low. I know Hopkins dominated for a long time, but I think Toney and Mike were better fighters at the weight, and their best wins at the weight were better than Hopkins' best wins at the weight.

 

Yeah, a head-to-head-at-their-peaks list would look much different. Peak Nunn at the top of his game is damn near unbeatable (top 5).

 

You've got some ***** criticising after some of the absolutely woeful lists you've posted.****e like Chris John in the top ten featherweights:rofl

 

:good

 

Interesting you should say that since Al Bernstein rates Nunn as the most unbeatable fighter when at the top of his game he has ever seen.

 

Bubi Scholz my ass. Im a big fan of Scholz and think he was underrated but no way was he top 50 in the deepest division in history. What was his best win at MW? Humez, who it took him two tries to beat and went life and death with?

 

Might be the closest I've seen to Ali...

 

I will still try my original question for McGrain

Why do you rate Fullmer so much lower than Giardello?

They seem close to me, so I'm interested in your thinking on this one.

 

I rate Giardello higher. Every time things were halfway close they went to Fullmer. Especially when he was fighting out west. With less biased judging his record doesnt look nearly as good. He could have easily been DQd in a bunch of his fights and got some gift decisions. When they actually faced each other Fullmer realized very quickly he could beat Giardello in a boxing match so he just decided to hug, maul, and hear the final bell to get a gift draw. Giardello could run hot and cold but when he was hot he was better than the best Fullmer.