Top 50 Middleweight of all Time

"Giardello could run hot and cold but when he was hot he was better than the best Fullmer"

Certainly a defensible opinion. I don't agree, but won't argue about it.

"Fullmer realized very quickly he couldn't beat Giardello in a boxing match"

Well, that was Giardello's strength, so what is really wrong with Fullmer going into the mauler mode. That was his strength. Why box a boxer? Or slug with a slugger? If you have options.

"With less biased judging his record doesn't look nearly as good"

Which fights had biased scoring?

Giardello? I thought it was close back in 1960 and know there were observers like Sports Illustrated who thought Fullmer won it.

Robinson in 1960--I have seen the full tape a number of times, and while Robinson really looked good and was ahead through 11, he did fade late and a draw was not unfair. Robinson did get a rematch and lost it.

Fernandez--I remember watching this one and rooting for Fernandez, who I thought an exciting slugger while Fullmer, as you mentioned, was an ugly mauler, but Fullmer was really way ahead until he hurt his arm (I think he broke or dislocated his elbow) in the 14th round and then had to fight one-armed. Fernandez still didn't really do much to him. I thought the decision fair. And I was rooting for Fernandez and was disappointed all the way through.

2nd Tiger fight--I thought the ringside reporters favored Fullmer on the whole. Another close fight which did not go to Fullmer.

As for "should have been DQ'd"--for all his alleged dirty fighting, I don't remember Fullmer winning fights very often on cuts. He was just a very unorthodox, clumsy fighter, who as Fritzie Zivic in an article I remember wrote (as I remember)

"His idea of a jab is jutting out his hand like a Nazi salute"

"He throws one punch at a time, as if he thinks a combination is something you use to open a safe"

"He's rough but never learned the art of butting, or how to use the laces to rip open a cut"

"Can't punch hard enough to break an egg"

All this is true, although the last is exaggerated, but the guy could move on his feet, unlike most maulers, was strong and durable, and had an unorthodox but effective defense, and could go all night at top speed.

*Just an aside, I think both Fullmer and Giardello fought at a time when there was a great deal of talent at middleweight.

 

Joe Calzaghe undefeated middleweight champion for 10 years

 

Surely a joke?

 

I love the interviews from right after Roy beat BHop. He's doing a lot of apologizing, and everyone was saying that he underperformed against a journeyman bum pushover. BHop didn't get no love until after he beat Trinidad.

 

Its not a joke - WBO undefeated super middleweight champ for 10 years. One of the all time boxing exhibitions vs Lacy - why isn't he on this list?atsch

 

He's English not British ?

 

He's welsh and British and easily top 50 middleweight of all time

 

Super middleweight

 

Wrestling is not boxing. If all you are doing is hugging and headbutting where are the scoring points? That decision was bull****.

Webb 1, Fernandez, Giardello, Robinson 3, Tiger 2 (how do you have that a draw when Fullmer does nothing but run the entire fight like he did in the second half of their first fight. He found out early he wasnt as strong as Tiger and his ugly John Ruiz act wasnt go work so he just ran and hoped for the usual gift he got), Or how about the officiating in the first Robinson fight where Fullmer fouled and fouled and fouled including getting a knockdown scored against Robinson that was a blatant trip. When questioned about all the fouling the referee said "what are you going to do? Thats the only way Fullmer knows how to fight?" Sorry but thats not an excuse for letting a guy get away with fouling. Or the fourth Robinson fight where Fullmer and his people readily admit they double crossed Robinson and violated the contract by using Fullmer's own training ring which was 4 feet smaller than the contracted ring (he used the same trick against Giardello) and then fouled the **** out of Robinson including that one round where he blasted him about five times as hard as he could after the bell. Even that stoppage against Basilio in the second fight was bull****. Like I said, his record looks a lot less impressive without all of that.

 

Shinji Takehara surely belongs on this list.

 

No Carl Froch or Andre Ward either-- can you believe it?!

 

Are you serious?

This thread is discussing the best MW's of all time.

Joe was obviously a SMW.

Here's a recent thread that you may find interesting:

http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=542897


:good

 

All this time I thought that super middle-weights were just really, really good middleweights!

 

I don't want to take the pi$$, he obviously jumped straight in without reading the thread properly.

 

"Tiger 2"

I saw the fight close, perhaps a slight edge to Fullmer. The judges had it a draw. UPI 70-66 for Fullmer. AP a 70-70 draw.

UPI's description-"Fullmer turned fancy Dan and darting in and out to land a single blow at a time, piled up an early lead."--that is the fight I saw. Not "running"

"Giardello"

Again a fight I thought very close. The judges had it a draw. UPI 144-142 for Fullmer. AP a 144-144 draw.

Hard to see two fights in which only 1 of 5 opinions by the judges and the major wire services favored his opponents as proving Fullmer didn't deserve even a draw.

"Robinson 3"

I have watched this several times, and Robinson's late fade made at least a draw fair. I score it 8-6-1 for Fullmer. There was a rematch.

"used his own training ring"

Who knew the Mormons controlled Las Vegas?--My own take is that unlike most maulers Fullmer was fast on his feet, so I don't know if a bigger ring would have done Robinson that much good. One thing I noticed about their fights is that Fullmer dictates the distance. He doesn't just plow in like LaMotta or Basilio. He moves outside jab range, gets his angle and then bolts in quickly. Robinson's jab wasn't as effective against Fullmer as it was against most other opponents.

"hit after the bell"

The referee didn't hear the bell, so Robinson's corner had to come in and stop the action. Fullmer could certainly have made the case that he also didn't hear the bell (although to tweak Robinson, he later wrote that he did hear it)

"fouled and fouled and fouled"

Fullmer fought all over the country, including I think more than ten times in New York City, and was rarely penalized. I am not certain what fouling you are talking about. Butts? Fullmer came in very low. If his head came first he was butting his opponent in the shoulders for the most part. Low blows? I haven't noticed that many. What he does do is keep hitting inside with his right if his opponent fails to tie him up. I don't think that was a foul.

*Fullmer really split people back when he was active. Many saw him dirty and fouling as you do. No question he had an ugly style, threw mainly one punch at a time, had an odd slap jab, a left hook that looked like he was brushing debris off a table, and a right which came in from all angles.

But I personally wouldn't call him dirty, and his odd combination of unorthodox punching, really good on his feet movement when he used it, plus strength and stamina, made him an always tough opponent.

"Robinson knockdown"

That looked a push to me.

"Basilio stoppage"

Basilio was hurt and did nothing but grab the whole 12th round, but it seemed odd to let it go that long and then stop it. On the other hand, Basilio was just taking a beating all fight long, as he did in the first fight.

Referee saying Fullmer fouled the whole fight but he ignored it.

Ruby Goldstein said that? I would like to read it. Do you have the source?