Top 55 Fighters, All Time

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Apr 1, 2008.


  1. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    The resumes/number of fights on the old-timers is usually what does rank them ahead though, even though skill-wise there are many who could be argued above certain fighters from different eras. Depends on what your strongest criteria for ranking fighters is.

    Although, as to your first paragraph, I think if you study certain fighters records, it's actually quite easy to rank one over the other, as long as you do so carefully. And again, depending on your criteria, but even in a head to head/in-ring performance type of list, it's not that hard to do, depending on how deep you get. I don't think I'll ever be able to do a top 100. I'm on a top 35 myself.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Why, particularly? Three weight world champ. Light middle beats #1 cruiser in modern terms...then takes out the leading LHW, having already beaten a great, great, dominant MW (154) champ. Regarded by many as the greatest up until that point EVER with the posisble exceptions of Jackson and Sullivan who were genuine HW's.

    I hear you. He is climbing my list.

    He did lose a lot of these fights of course. But I hear you. I think a top 15 spot could be justified. I don't like to see him outside of the 30.

    I have a feeling that you will end up making a Greb-like exception for Dixon and end up ranking him pretty high head to head. He might, just might, have been a moster. Maybe. Regardless, I have no problem with him in the 30's and it makes me a bit sad to see him outside of the 50 now i'm educated on the man.

    He's special. Been the man at multiple weights now. This is the highest i've worn him and i'm just trying it on. Feels right to me. Arguello got a big bump too.

    Cheers. And your man is climbing. Good work ;)
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I agree.
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It starts of exactly as you describe, but as the thing progresses, that's exactly what happens. You develop a "feel" for your list and slight changes can feel really really right or really really wrong. I dont' see why a top 10 HW's should be so reasonable and a top 10 p4p should be so reasonable, but a 25 - or is it a 26 that is "to many" - should not be. Regardless, it is a fine way to learn about fighters.

    That's why guys like Leonard, Ali, Duran and Whitaker share top 20 space with guys like Ross, Saddler and Robinson. Where's the problem?


    He fought plenty of good men, so did Whitaker. I think Pep was slightly better. Not much in it though. Make the case.

    Indisputably true.
     
  5. sues2nd

    sues2nd Fading into Bolivian... Full Member

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    Evander isnt retired yet??? As far as Im letting my mind know he has....:yep
     
  6. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Probably just because I am more impressed with a guy like Walcott, and, while Fitz's accomplishments were great, I don't feel his resume overall is as great as some of the guys ranked around him. I have him at about #16 or so though, so I guess it's no big deal.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    16 is fine.

    But keep in mind that Fitz would have turned pro at 147. Corbett was around 180, was younger, and was regarded as genuinely great. I consider it as great a win as has occured.
     
  8. sues2nd

    sues2nd Fading into Bolivian... Full Member

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    Sweet Pea...just out of curiosity, where do you rank Whitaker???
     
  9. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    My top 35 at the moment. My list changes often.

    1. Ray Robinson
    2. Harry Greb
    3. Henry Armstrong
    4. Sam Langford
    5. Muhammad Ali
    6. Ezzard Charles
    7. Roberto Duran
    8. Mickey Walker
    9. Barbados Joe Walcott
    10. Barney Ross
    11. Ray Leonard
    12. Pernell Whitaker
    13. Willie Pep
    14. Benny Leonard
    15. Joe Louis
    16. Archie Moore
    17. Bob Fitzsimmons
    18. Joe Gans
    19. Tony Canzoneri
    20. Carlos Monzon
    21. Gene Tunney
    22. Marvin Hagler
    23. Alexis Arguello
    24. Carlos Ortiz
    25. Emile Griffith
    26. Kid Gavilan
    27. Roy Jones Jr.
    28. Sandy Saddler
    29. Julio Cesar Chavez
    30. Eder Jofre
    31. Jimmy Wilde
    32. Charley Burley
    33. Tommy Hearns
    34. Jose Napoles
    35. Ike Williams
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I don't tax an old guy to hard for losing legacy wise anyway, rightly or wrongly. But it's hard to rate a guy high when he's making a tit out of himself and the sport so consistantly. Do you have a number for him?
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Why is Duran above Walker?

    These two are to low, though I've heard and understand your thinking.

    Other than these objectins, great 35.
     
  12. Robbi

    Robbi Marvelous Full Member

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    Personally, I'm too lazy to rank fighters with such distinction. Everyone should use the same criteria IMO. And thats quality of opposition, longevity, then coming back from defeats and inactivity. Surely nobody ranks fighters with H2H being priority over every other category. That would be plain crazy. Longevity and quality of opposition IMO are the key areas. A fighter with an impressive longevity under his belt usually has a greater number of fights than another fighter who's not as consistent. Not always. Roberto Duran's longevity is impressive, but he became rather inconsistent after "no mas" in particular, but what he scores heavily on was his ability to come back after serious setbacks. Part of the reason why Duran was special.

    The most impressive feat for any fighter would be fighting against a high level of opposition on a regular basis, moving up divisions, remaining unbeaten for a lengthy span, then when the wheels come off they are quickly back on against opponents with a similar calibre to those he fought in his prime.
     
  13. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    As of now, it's on a basis of skill the way I see it. Both moved up in the weights very well, Duran from 135 to 160 successfully, Walker from 147 to HW. As of now, it's because I'm so impressed with Duran's versatility, albeit inconsistency at times.

    Thanks. Burley is rising in my rankings, though I've obviously not studied him like you have. Wilde is another I'll have to give another look, as I'll often make my perceptions of a fighter relatively quickly, and his resume didn't impress me at all upon first inspection, regardless as to the size of his opponents. Again though, I'll give them second looks.
     
  14. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Who is the hardest fighter to rank objectively?
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Duran's skillset is more impressive and by more than one shade. However - in terms of power, strength, durability and chin he is buried. In terms of heart he's shaded. In terms of resme, he's beat. I think Walker is above Duran on a composite list.

    If it's skillset and physical gifts you are primarily interested in as your post indicates, get ready to rocket Burley up your list.