The resumes/number of fights on the old-timers is usually what does rank them ahead though, even though skill-wise there are many who could be argued above certain fighters from different eras. Depends on what your strongest criteria for ranking fighters is. Although, as to your first paragraph, I think if you study certain fighters records, it's actually quite easy to rank one over the other, as long as you do so carefully. And again, depending on your criteria, but even in a head to head/in-ring performance type of list, it's not that hard to do, depending on how deep you get. I don't think I'll ever be able to do a top 100. I'm on a top 35 myself.
Why, particularly? Three weight world champ. Light middle beats #1 cruiser in modern terms...then takes out the leading LHW, having already beaten a great, great, dominant MW (154) champ. Regarded by many as the greatest up until that point EVER with the posisble exceptions of Jackson and Sullivan who were genuine HW's. I hear you. He is climbing my list. He did lose a lot of these fights of course. But I hear you. I think a top 15 spot could be justified. I don't like to see him outside of the 30. I have a feeling that you will end up making a Greb-like exception for Dixon and end up ranking him pretty high head to head. He might, just might, have been a moster. Maybe. Regardless, I have no problem with him in the 30's and it makes me a bit sad to see him outside of the 50 now i'm educated on the man. He's special. Been the man at multiple weights now. This is the highest i've worn him and i'm just trying it on. Feels right to me. Arguello got a big bump too. Cheers. And your man is climbing. Good work
It starts of exactly as you describe, but as the thing progresses, that's exactly what happens. You develop a "feel" for your list and slight changes can feel really really right or really really wrong. I dont' see why a top 10 HW's should be so reasonable and a top 10 p4p should be so reasonable, but a 25 - or is it a 26 that is "to many" - should not be. Regardless, it is a fine way to learn about fighters. That's why guys like Leonard, Ali, Duran and Whitaker share top 20 space with guys like Ross, Saddler and Robinson. Where's the problem? He fought plenty of good men, so did Whitaker. I think Pep was slightly better. Not much in it though. Make the case. Indisputably true.
Probably just because I am more impressed with a guy like Walcott, and, while Fitz's accomplishments were great, I don't feel his resume overall is as great as some of the guys ranked around him. I have him at about #16 or so though, so I guess it's no big deal.
16 is fine. But keep in mind that Fitz would have turned pro at 147. Corbett was around 180, was younger, and was regarded as genuinely great. I consider it as great a win as has occured.
My top 35 at the moment. My list changes often. 1. Ray Robinson 2. Harry Greb 3. Henry Armstrong 4. Sam Langford 5. Muhammad Ali 6. Ezzard Charles 7. Roberto Duran 8. Mickey Walker 9. Barbados Joe Walcott 10. Barney Ross 11. Ray Leonard 12. Pernell Whitaker 13. Willie Pep 14. Benny Leonard 15. Joe Louis 16. Archie Moore 17. Bob Fitzsimmons 18. Joe Gans 19. Tony Canzoneri 20. Carlos Monzon 21. Gene Tunney 22. Marvin Hagler 23. Alexis Arguello 24. Carlos Ortiz 25. Emile Griffith 26. Kid Gavilan 27. Roy Jones Jr. 28. Sandy Saddler 29. Julio Cesar Chavez 30. Eder Jofre 31. Jimmy Wilde 32. Charley Burley 33. Tommy Hearns 34. Jose Napoles 35. Ike Williams
I don't tax an old guy to hard for losing legacy wise anyway, rightly or wrongly. But it's hard to rate a guy high when he's making a tit out of himself and the sport so consistantly. Do you have a number for him?
Why is Duran above Walker? These two are to low, though I've heard and understand your thinking. Other than these objectins, great 35.
Personally, I'm too lazy to rank fighters with such distinction. Everyone should use the same criteria IMO. And thats quality of opposition, longevity, then coming back from defeats and inactivity. Surely nobody ranks fighters with H2H being priority over every other category. That would be plain crazy. Longevity and quality of opposition IMO are the key areas. A fighter with an impressive longevity under his belt usually has a greater number of fights than another fighter who's not as consistent. Not always. Roberto Duran's longevity is impressive, but he became rather inconsistent after "no mas" in particular, but what he scores heavily on was his ability to come back after serious setbacks. Part of the reason why Duran was special. The most impressive feat for any fighter would be fighting against a high level of opposition on a regular basis, moving up divisions, remaining unbeaten for a lengthy span, then when the wheels come off they are quickly back on against opponents with a similar calibre to those he fought in his prime.
As of now, it's on a basis of skill the way I see it. Both moved up in the weights very well, Duran from 135 to 160 successfully, Walker from 147 to HW. As of now, it's because I'm so impressed with Duran's versatility, albeit inconsistency at times. Thanks. Burley is rising in my rankings, though I've obviously not studied him like you have. Wilde is another I'll have to give another look, as I'll often make my perceptions of a fighter relatively quickly, and his resume didn't impress me at all upon first inspection, regardless as to the size of his opponents. Again though, I'll give them second looks.
Duran's skillset is more impressive and by more than one shade. However - in terms of power, strength, durability and chin he is buried. In terms of heart he's shaded. In terms of resme, he's beat. I think Walker is above Duran on a composite list. If it's skillset and physical gifts you are primarily interested in as your post indicates, get ready to rocket Burley up your list.