Top Fifty All-Time Great at 175lbs

"Pastrano got a hiding in his title effort"

Well, I was wondering why Pastrano was rated so low in contrast to the similar, but not quite as successful, Slattery.

Taking his greatest win off the table explains things

I scored it 8-6-1 for Pastrano, so this reasoning isn't relevant for me.

I would put Pastrano at least in the same tier as Slattery--actually I think he might go a tier higher as he was good longer.

**downgrading Pastrano also downgrades Peralta, who I think might have a good case for a tier ten rating. I think he beat every light-heavyweight he fought.

 

There's no way RJJ is a top 10 ATG at LHW, is there?

 

no!!!!!!

 

Originally Posted by McGrain:
"Well I thought Pastrano got a hiding in his title effort. I think I had it 10-5. Where I think he gets really overlooked is one up. The draw with Moore, victories over Joey Maxim, Rex Layne, John Holman, Brian London it's really impressive and he doesn't get credit for it."

Mcgrains
Please explain

Archie Moore was 45 years old
Joey Maxim was far past his prime in 1955
Rex Layne was complete washed up in 1955
John Holman was coming off 2 losses and would only win 1 of his next 4
Brian London he split the series 1-1. London is mediocre at best

What's so impressive about that? I'm baffled

 

As usual Greb gets sold short at LHW even though he beat:

2 guys in tier 2
1 guy in tier 3
2 guys in tier 4
1 guy in tier 5
1 guy in tier 6
1 guy in tier 7
1 guy in tier 8
1 guy in tier 9

I dont think any other fighter (on that list or off) can boast of beating that many names on the list, that many champions, or that many HOFers, so how exactly is he relegated to tier 2?

 

It seems like it when he has more top wins against more top guys on your list than your #1 and #2.

 

Who did Roy Jones really fight at LHW? Griffin? Hill, who had already lost his titles? Ancient McCallum?

Glen Kelly, Clinton Woods, and Julio Cesar Gonzalez aren't exactly great wins.

 

Are you rating his actual achievements at the weight, or how good you think he was in comparison to everyone else?

There's a difference.

His best wins at the weight were Griffin, Hill, Johnson, and Tarver.

But he has to be up there when talking about the greatest fighters who fought at the weight.

I'm sure you could make an argument for him beating a fair few guys from those tiers.

 

His actual achievements. I don't think about how he would have done against people from those tiers. I think about it like school; students aren't graded on what they COULD have done, but what they actually did.

 

I like this ****ogy.

 

Yeah, but we know what Roy did at other weights. He was special.

Apart from fighting Dariusz, he fought just about everyone who mattered at the weight, and he dominated most of them.

I think his best win was Tarver due to the circumstances involved.

Obviously some of the great fighters of the past fought for longer at the top level.

You may not rate him on head to head, but others certainly will do.

He has to be up there when you mention the best fighters who ever fought at the weight.

 

But the LHW division was weak when Roy fought there. He fought guys like Richard Frazier and Otis Grant. Frazier was an off-duty NYC cop who wasn't even ranked by the Ring, and Grant was a MW.