Top ten Heavyweight champs based upon dominance of era

Well considering he was the first gloved champion, he didn't shatter any records he merely set them.

As fr as I can gather, his title claim traces back to his victory over Elliot in July of 1882.

Since then he faced the following people in fights that, had he lost, would have resulted in the opponent being named hw champion, imo:

Higgins, Stockton, O'Donnell, Rentzler, Mitchell, Slade, McCoy, Miles, Hefey, Sheehan, Robinson, Gouriff, Lang, Robinson, Marx, Henry, Fleming, Phillips, Laflin, Greenfield, Greenfield, Burke, McCaffrey, Herald, Ryan, Cardiff, Williams.

And there's a no contest in there as well.

So as far as I can gather, he faced a shower of ****e but had any of them men listed emerged victorious they'd have rightfully claimed the championship.

I can't remember when Pollack thinks he was first recognised as champion so that could change the number if it's after Elliot.

 

You just retyped the names listed on boxrec.

Almost all those were exhibitions lasting a couple rounds where people who weren't professional fighters raised their hands and came out of the audience and tried to last a couple rounds in order to win a couple hundred bucks. They were in no way, shape or form title defenses.

His bout with Paddy Ryan in 1882 is the fight that most in the U.S. saw as him becoming the champion. It isn't even listed on boxrec. Neither are his "title defenses" against Charlie Mitchell (in 1888)or Jake Kilrain (in 1889).

Don't go by boxrec.

The boxrec list is about as accurate as someone just keying in all of Muhammad Ali's exhibitions and calling them title defenses. It's a nonsensical list ... which is why none of them are labeled title fights.

You might as well remove every instance of Ali fighting Frazier, Norton, Foreman, Liston, etc., and just list Ali's exhibitions vs. Scott Ledoux, Bernardo Mercado, Lyle Alzado ... and have someone say those were Ali title defenses.

John L. Sullivan fought a couple of guys in bouts considered title defenses. The rest of the time, he went on tours and just beat up guys who were the "toughest guy who works down at the paper mill."

If nobody raised their hand, he just fought the guys he was on tour with and went on to the next town. If Sullivan looked like he could lose (because he was hammered) they wouldn't let him fight. If he got injured, it was ruled a draw. He wasn't going to lose to anyone in those situations. They were exhibitions.

They were always considered exhibitions, until this book you guys keep referencing came out and apparently confused all of you.

In Sullivan's day, if a fight was fought with gloves, it was considered an exhibition (sort of like someone wearing a headguard would be today). Nearly every fight listed there, if not all of them, were fought with gloves.

The Corbett-Sullivan fight was the first heavyweight title fight in the "gloved" era.

Sullivan-Ryan in 1882 was a bare knuckle fight (as were Ryan's fights before that, as were Joe Goss's and Tom Allen's). As was Sullivan vs. Mitchell in 1888 and Sullivan-Kilrain in 1889. In fact, much of the world didn't consider Sullivan the world champion until he beat Kilrain in 1889.

Finally, world heavyweight title fights weren't scheduled for four rounds or six rounds then any more than they are scheduled for four or six rounds now.

If they fought with gloves, and it was scheduled for a couple rounds back then, it was an exhibition.

But thanks for at least responding. I appreciate it. (I'm not being sarcastic, at least you stepped up and gave some names.)

I don't know how this stuff gets started 120 years after the fact.

 

https://books.google.com.au/books?i...ce=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Here is a good link to some of the book that is causing all this fuss, and is probably of interest to many on here.

 

If the men listed defeated Sullivan, would they be able to call themselves the HW champion of the world?

 

Boxrec has identified 28.

Adam Pollack has identified 33.

You seem to have settled on five!

 

A few points need to be clarified here.

Boxrec do not as a matter of policy list either bareknuckle fights or exhibitions.

The fact that the bouts with Ryan, Mitchell and Killran are not listed is in line with this policy.

The fact that they list the other bouts is a clear statement that they do not consider them to be exhibitions.

Given the politics of the day, Sullivan basically had two options if he wished to defend his title:

A. He could hold an illegal prize fight, and risk interference from the police, or subsequent arrest.
B. He could bill the bout as an exhibition, which meant that it had to comply with state law in terms of number of rounds rules etc.

The contract would usually stipulate that if the police stopped the fight due to knockdowns, the fighter who scored the knockdowns would be declared the winner.