Top Ten Middleweights All Time

He lost to Monroe a respected boxer out of Philly which was a tough town at that time. The Watts fight was a poor decision. I don`t think anyone thinks Watts beat Hagler. Plus he KOd both Watts and Monroe later.

On the other hand remember Hopkins struggled to a draw with Segundo Mercado. Just sayin all fighters have off night.

 

Hagler had a higher knockout percentage in his title defenses than Hopkins did.

Watts and Monroe were hardly unknowns. They were both highly regarded contenders. Moreover, Philadelphia promoter J. Russell Peltz apologized to Hagler after the Watts fight, which featured what was universally regarded as one of the worst hometown decisions in recent history.

Hagler fought them a total of three more times and won three knockouts.

 

Seamus, people forget that when Ketchel fought Sam Langford in April,1910, Sam Langford weighed about 12-15 pounds more than
Ketchel did...A tremendous weight handicap for Stan against the
likes of a Langford to overcome. Coupled with the fact that at this
point in time Ketchel was probably hooked on opium, which is why he
went to recuperate from these excesses to the farm of his pal Col.
Dickerson in Conway, Missouri where he was fatally shot just 5 months after his bout with Langford...Too bad we have no films of Ketchel's
49 knockouts....

 

Was Ketchel/Langford a 6 rounder? I read an article where someone ask Sam if he carried Ketchel and Langford said no way.

 

Great stuff, Burt:good. Thanks for the info.

 

Thanks Seamus:good. Great stuff.

 

One of those losses Hagler had was a robbery, which he avenged by knockout regardless. And he fought the guy who gave him the legitimate loss, Monroe, again and ko'd him in the 12th before fighting him a 3rd time and getting him out of there in the 2nd.

And if you watch the fight, Vito charged in and headbutted Hagler, not the other way around. There is a second significant headbutt in which they both put there heads down but Hagler's goes a little lower, so Vito probably got the worst of that one but seeing as though they were both moving their heads down it's hard to see that as anything but an accident.

The Geraldo fight was close before the last 3 rounds, which Hagler dominated. If I remember correctly Geraldo gave Leonard problems so he was no bum.

Meanwhile if you look through Hopkins middleweight resume, the two names that jump out are Roy Jones, whom Hopkins lost to, and Glen Johnson which is a very good win especially as it was a stoppage. But either way Hopkin's middleweight record is significantly weaker than alot of the other fighters being mentioned here. He is a definite top ten, but should be at the lower end.

Of course, this is just my personal opinion though.

 

This is how I have it:

1) Harry Greb- Non stop punching machine who could give as well as he could take. Unlike many fighters of the day he drew no color line in his matchups. Would be a handful for any fighter regardless of weight or era. Defeated a who's who of great fighters. Was probably avoided by Dempsey.

2) Sugar Ray Robinson- Arguably the greatest fighter p4p all time. Virtually unbeatable at Welterweight. 5 time Middleweight champion.

3) Carlos Monzon- 6 ft. rugged and strong. Unbeaten from Oct 64 until he retired. 14 title defenses as the undisputed champion.

4) Marvin Hagler- He fought and defeated a murderers row of contenders in the 70's before becoming champion, and destroyed anyone who challenged him as the champion. Tough and mean, he could box or brawl.

5) Freddie Steele- An excellent boxer, with hand and foot speed, to go along with punching power. During his career he faced 9 champions and defeated 8 of them. Had a great chin. He fought 120 fights by his mid twenties, and all of his KO losses came in his last 6 fights, when those fights caught up with him.

6) Bernard Hopkins- 26 title defenses. Had great stamina, and was tough to outwork. Was a thinking fighter in the ring, who as he aged continued to dominate his younger opponents. Knew every 'trick' in the book.

7) Mickey Walker- Fast and aggressive with power in both hands. Fought and defeated larger fighters. Is a p4p all time great. One of the toughest fighters of any era.

8) Bob Fitzsimmons- Great power in either hand. Dominated men much larger. The 1st triple crown champion.

9) Tiger Flowers- A southpaw with great boxing skills. Had 10 losses by KO, but many to larger fighters. Defeated Harry Greb twice, and was robbed of the decision versus Mickey Walker.

10) Tony Zale- The Man of Steel. He was a fearsome body puncher. He was rugged and could take punishment, and still have the reserves to come back and knock you out.

So many great fighters at this weight. Left out alot of fighters, who should be on an all time Middleweight list. EDIT: Realized I left Ketchel off my list. He needs to be in any top 10 Middleweight discussion.

 

1. Harry Greb
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Marvin Hagler
4. Carlos Monzon
5. Bernard Hopkins
6. Bob Fitzsimmons
7. Stanley Ketchell
8. Jake LaMotta
9. Freddie Steele
10. Marcel Cerdan

 

I read an article where Langford states Ketchel wasn't half the fighter he was made out to be.I think Langford probably carried the past his peak Ketchel in hopes of a return for the title.

 

It's very possible ,its also possible that Sam Langford might have beaten all of them. I take the view their place in ring history is at heavyweight.
I'm now going to make a thread.
" The Top Ten Middles Who Never Won The Crown".

 

Marvin strategically put the top of his head in the trajectory of Vito's head. Hagler knew what he was doing.
Other than that he was a great all around fighter but Hopkins at middleweight was a level above for me. I ranks on skills, ability, eye test next to all else.
Leonard would not of beaten Hop and Marvin vs Hop is 50/50 imo.

 

I'm not too sure about Leonard not being able to beat Hopkins. Hopkins would not be the best person Leonard fought, but Leonard would be the best that Hopkins did.