Top Ten Middleweights pre-1950

Well than in retrospect that's more of a feat for Williams than a scalp for Cerdan.

 

This is a pretty interesting story and a great injustice to Papke. Papke and Ketchel fought 4 times. In reality what happened was that after his first fight with Ketchel (and before their second) Papke claimed that when the bell rang for the first round he went out to shake Ketchel's hands and instead of shaking Ketchel threw a sucker punch which sent Papke to his knees and altered the entire course of the fight. When they had the rematch Papke made it known that he would not shake hands this time and allow Ketchel the opportunity to take an unsportsmanlike advantage. When the bell rang for the second fight the fighters came out and this time Papke refused to shake hands. The Los Angeles Herald even makes that comment that Papke refused to shake hands "remembering the Milwaukee fight" and that Ketchel actually landed the first blow of the fight. So the fact is that Papke beat Ketchel in their second fight fair and square and it was possibly Ketchel, not Papke that sucker punched his opponent in their first fight, not their second. I'm a bit mystified as to how this story got so turned around but the earliest telling I can find of it being Ketchel that was sucker punched was in the 1920s by a writer who was not at either fight. Papke by the way was a tremendous fighter when he was in shape but he hated training and hated trying to make weight and his performances often suffered as a result. His prime was relatively short but I'm of the opinion that prime for prime he and Ketchel always would have been 50/50 (which they essentially were given the circumstances of the first fight, Papke's win in the second, Ketchel's win in the third, and the arguable robbery that went to Ketchel in the fourth). Papke was a very smart boxer, very tough, hit very hard, and was supremely confident. This confidence made him cool under pressure but I believe it was his Achilles heal and led him to be overconfident sometimes which led to subpar preparation.

 

Regardless, Papke never suckerpunched Ketchel and the story predates fight 2 and has Ketchel the perpetrator.

The ringside accounts are pretty unanimous that a draw would have been generous to ketchel.

 

Mickey Walker seems to be the only fighter who sits higher in the all-time p4p list, than in the list for any weight class he ever fought in!

 

Limiting Walker to one division tends to restrict him. He didn't really compile a dominant record in any of them. His greatness was his ability to move through lots of divisions and beat top fighters in all of them.

 

Well WW must be the sweetest slice of Walker's cake from what I seen, at least in terms of quality. He wasn't giving 20 or so lbs. like when he was butting with the LHWs and HVW but the quality is nothing to **** at.

 

Of those four papers you list which actually had a representative ringside? Certainly the Call, which had the most pro-Papke opinion of your four. The other three which were lukewarm for Ketchel at best published wire reports, which are neither first hand sources nor of great reliability.

 

I have Walker second on my list.

Firstly you know my position on robberies, especially those I can't see myself.

Secondly I pick Walker to beat everyone beneath him on my list. Although every time I see Gibbons I rank him a bit higher, I'm thinking the Pernell Whitaker of the MW division.

Also I'm tempted to rank Ketchel higher but his lack of defence makes me think certain boxers knock him out late on.

Would you pick Gibbons and Ketchel over Walker in a h2h sense? Enough footage of each exists to make an educated opinion imo.