Top thirty middles between 1885 and 1925?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Apr 18, 2015.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It's difficult isn't it, after the first couple? Here are some names, who is missing, who would you introduce etc.?

    ATG:
    Harry Greb
    Stanley Ketchel
    Mike Gibbons
    Tommy Ryan
    Bob Fitzsimmons
    Tiger Flowers
    -------------------------
    CUSP:
    Jack Dempsey
    Billy Papke
    Frank Klaus
    Jack Dillon
    ---------------------------
    ELITE:
    Les Darcey
    Tommy Gibbons
    Jack O'Brien
    Jeff Smith
    Kid McCoy
    Leo Houck
    Dave Shade
    ---------------------------
    TOP MEN:
    Barbados Joe Walcott
    Sam Langford
    Jack Twin Sullivan
    Eddie McGoorty
    Tommy Burns
    Hugo Kelly
    Jimmy Clabby
    -----------------------------
    THERE OR THEREABOUTS:
    Tommy Burns
    Young Peter Jackson
    Lou Bogash
    Johnny Wilson
    George Chip
    Mike O'Dowd



    So that's thirty names - what are we seeing here?

    I want to suggest that if you want to remove a name, you maybe think of someone above to be removed and suggest a tier, but whatever you feel. These guys have a shout:

    HM: Cyclone Johnny Thompson, Tommy West, Willie Lewis.
     
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
    #1
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I've missed off Dave Shade!
     
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
    #2
  3. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Dave Sands???
     
    Bukkake, Apr 18, 2015
    Bukkake, Apr 18, 2015
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  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah - I wrote "Sands" instead of "Shade". All fixed now.
     
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
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  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Anyone?
     
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
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  6. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Did a young jeff Clarke merit mention. Or too big.
     
    LittleRed, Apr 18, 2015
    LittleRed, Apr 18, 2015
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  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I thought too big, but maybe worth another look?
     
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
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  8. Surf-Bat

    Surf-Bat Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well done, though ya made one BIG omission- JIMMY CLABBY, the Indiana Wasp :smoke I would put Jeff Smith up as a cusper for sure. Same with Dave Shade(who was successful from welter all the way up to light-heavy).

    Great list though.
     
    Surf-Bat, Apr 18, 2015
    Surf-Bat, Apr 18, 2015
    #8
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    What a shout that is. That's great. Dominates McGoorty in a series, takes a newspaper off Gibbons by Boxrec, it's alright.

    Any feelings about who you would remove? IF you were to think about it?
     
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
    #9
  10. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I think Joe Thomas perhaps instead of Carpentier.
    His record doesn't look great but I believe he gave Papke a better fight than Carp did, and he drew one and lost two or three to Ketchel, including an absolutely epic 32 round war.
     
    Unforgiven, Apr 18, 2015
    Unforgiven, Apr 18, 2015
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  11. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I don't see Leo Houck on the list, though he has actually beaten 7 of your original 30 men:

    McCoy
    Wilson
    Chip (x4)
    Dillon
    McGoorty
    Papke
    Klaus

    ... as well as Jeff Smith and Battling Levinsky (x3)


    I would suggest removing Nonpareil Dempsey to make room for Houck.
     
    Bukkake, Apr 18, 2015
    Bukkake, Apr 18, 2015
    #11
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Houck did make a claim for the MW title at one point, but I have awful trouble trying to pin down his weight. He seems, to me, to be a LHW rather than a MW, and certainly seems to have been over 160 for a lot of his MW contests, and not by a little. Still, he very possibly belongs on here and if half of that lot was at the weight he's a lock. I wouldn't imagine that would be in place of NP JD thought, not with the way he was viewed in his own time.

    I love the Joe Thomas shout; he gave Ketchel at least one really good fight too. I'm not sure he can creep on here though - Jack "Twin" Sullivan would be in ahead of him I reckon and so would Hugo Kelly.

    Maybe Houck instead of Carpantier?
     
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
    McGrain, Apr 18, 2015
    #12
  13. Surf-Bat

    Surf-Bat Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Al McCoy should be removed. Regarding Leo Houck, he was a middleweight title claimant. Definitely not a light-heavy until later in his career. Sadly we can't find most of his weights for his prime years. But unquestionably a middleweight contender.
     
    Surf-Bat, Apr 18, 2015
    Surf-Bat, Apr 18, 2015
    #13
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    In goes Houck and Clabby, out come Carpantier and McCoy.
     
    McGrain, Apr 19, 2015
    McGrain, Apr 19, 2015
    #14
  15. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    As a total outside shot, would Bob Moha make it in anywhere? I'll check Clarkee's weights later.
     
    LittleRed, Apr 19, 2015
    LittleRed, Apr 19, 2015
    #15
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