Tougher opponents throughout there career. Tyson or Marciano

Tyson beat Spinks, Smith, Holmes, Tucker, Tubbs, Bruno, Ruddock, Thomas, Golota and Biggs… each of whom I would take over Rex Layne, an Ezzard Charles who wouldn't go .500 over the rest of his career, a 39 year old Joe Walcott at the tail end of his career, a Joe Louis full of formaldehyde or Dandy Fat Don ****ell, he of many rolls but of little starch.

Tyson by a country mile.

 

What are you talking about? This is what I wrote:

"They both beat a Ghost of the Past in Louis and Holmes. Could argue either way. "

Please explain how does this imply Louis was prime? Looks to me like I said both Louis and Holmes were past their prime in regards to the topic and an argument could be made either way which was the better win.

In the future, don't blindly agree with an idiot troll that has gone out of his way to childishly harass me since I returned to the forums.

 

On the flipside:

A 38 year old Holmes who had been enjoying retirement for two years?

A 32 year old semi-retired Spinks at the tail end of his career who was stripped of his title for fighting a fellow semi-retired has been instead of a real contender?

Fat Tony Tubby Tubbs

Andrew"The Quitter who never beat a contender" Golota.

A distracted and injured Pinklon Thomas who had already lost his title to Berbick and would lose 4 of his next 5 matches?

Biggs Who?

Ruddock, Bruno, Tucker, and Smith were good but unforunately can't even begin to match Layne's resume.

...etc.

And kind of funny Ezzard Charles suddenly started losing in bunches after taking two bad beatings from Marciano....you don't think the Marciano matches had anything to do with it? But if one is going to argue for Tyson it is very necessary to dismiss Charles, because Tyson hasn't beat an active fighter with a third of his credentials.

 

:good its a fact

 

Tyson would most certaintly beat Morrison and Foreman in the mid 90s. I would also favor him over 95-96 Bowe, who's conditioning was a mess while Tyson was still in phenominal shape.

 

It's a fact that pushing 40, being fat, losing your next fights, or being at the tail end of your career is only relevant if your opponent is Maricano and not Mike Tyson?

You know what they say:

One man's fat dandy is another man's great victory.

 

Do you think by making up facts they become reality for anyone but you and your Marciano nut hugger posse ?

Semi-retired Spinks ? Are you delusional ?

Holmes no doubt but no one hypes it .. even though he'd be in the mid range of age for a Marciano opponent, somewhere between Walcott and Moore ..

Tubbs was always tubby. Are yu comparing him to the Tubbs with ripped abs that fought Page and Witherspoon ? :nut

Tyrell Briggs, the undefeated Olympic Gold Medal winner and highly rated contender who happened to be 6' 5" w an 80" reach and had defeated Snipes and Bey coming in ..

Ruddock, Bruno, Tucker or Smith all would have flattened Layne.

You really don;t know too much , do you ? :?

 

Please, we are never going to see eye to eye. I've made it clear that I will no longer be discussing boxing or anything with you due to your rudeness and stubborness. Stop bringing my name up for no reason, stop responding to my posts with unprovoked trash talking, stop insutling me. I will not be dragged into a flame war with you. I cleared my ignore list a week or so ago and all I'm seeing is this rubbish for my trouble. Please stop. Thank you.

 

I'm not sure but I would've liked to know, would have been great fights

 

Yes, ignore him. Your input here is too valuable to be tarnished by an argumentative and rude individual.

Btw, Ezzard Charles is by far the highest ranked p4p boxer mentioned up to this point in this discussion. None of Tyson's opponents, even the ones he lost to, come close. They may have been bigger, but mankind has gotten bigger at a similar rate.

After fighting Marciano, many fighters, including Charles, were never the same again. That cant be used against the Rock.

 

So, it was two fights with the Heavyweight Champ of Providence, Rhode Island and not the 95 previous fights that caused Charles' decline? I guess that the Rock also caused his ALS… and probably Lou Gehrig's also…. and Babe Ruth's cancer.

And the heavyweight version of Ezzard that fought in '54 would be ranked P4P as nothing. He was a middling journeyman by that time. Unless, Layne, Johnson and Valdes were all time great heavies.

 

-Charles probably took more clean shots and punishment in those 23 rounds than he did in his whole career post World War II. And playing gate keeper after the Rocky fights, he probably took more punishment than he did in his previous 100 fights, which probably didn't help his health.

-A factually incorrect statment. After losing the title he spent 52-54, bouncing back and forth between the #1 and #2 spot. A middling journeyman does not consistently hold down a top spot for two straight years. Taken in the proper context, why would such losses downgrade him to a journeyman?

 

Are you serious?

Little, tubby kockell, at the tail-end of his career (never won another fight)... he's about the same level as the Douglas who fought Tyson??

And 180 lbs Phil Muscato - in the middle of the 7-fight losing streak that closed out his career - he's up there with Frank Bruno?

Or how about Carmine Vingo, who in his 18-bout pro career never beat a single half-decent opponent? How can he possibly be grouped together with Bruno... or any of those other guys, for that matter? It just doesn't make sense!

 

-By that measure how many fights did Douglas win after Tyson?

-Muscato was a once solid contender with some good wins and played a tough trail horse to Rocky but I'm probably being a bit unfair on Bruno. I could see a case for sliding him up into the next bracket and did so. You don't think Vingo and Green are comparable? I do.

 

He won 8 fights after Tyson - but that's not the point!

We're talking about the Kockell who fought Marciano, and the Douglas who fought Tyson. Of the two, would you not agree, that Tyson faced the infinitely more formidable opponent?

As for Green, I will certainly agree, that he's not one of the best of that group! But he was big and strong, with a solid chin, and took both Tyson and Berbick the full distance. Until he was flattened by Rocky, who did Vingo ever face that can be even remotely compared to Tyson or Berbick?