Tracy Callis has slightly changed his All Time rankings

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BitPlayerVesti, Jan 14, 2020.


  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Tyler went away. Tyler's gone. Staff Member

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    Jeffries is certainly polarizing. He exists in that same weird paradoxical space as Mike Tyson - perennially overrated and underrated to a ludicrous degree, with the voices of balanced reason drowned out while moshing on the head of a pin.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, and it's like he doesn't understand what's happening in The Philippines, Ukraine or Uzbekistan. He's writing purely from a western perspective. If this incredible will, discipline and determination were established in the American fighters of 1900, they certainly would be established in the poorest people from these countries where the breadline has just as much meaning as it did in Wyoming in 1895.

    The more I think about it the more I hate it.
     
  3. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    On first viewing I thought these rankings must have been from the first half of the 20th century!
    Then I noticed the more modern names in there.
    Surely this man isn’t serious.
     
  4. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Tyler went away. Tyler's gone. Staff Member

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    Yep. Very white-, Yank-, and pioneer- centric. Guy has a bad case of nostalgia goggles to go along with some unhealthy notions of racial and nationalistic hegemony.
     
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  5. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    But what good is it to be super-informed, when it results in rankings as absurd as these?
     
  6. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    As you can see, I am not a fan of these rankings, but a large part of the argument against them is circular.

    They are argued to be wrong in large part, because we disagree with them!
     
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  7. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No, they are argued to be wrong, because they are beyond ridiculous.
     
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  8. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    They are at least theoretically possible.

    This means that it is not enough simply to say that they are ridiculous and leave it at that.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Now that is a circular argument!
     
  10. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ok, let's be honest and call a spade a spade... if this was the brainchild of Ra's Al Ghul, we would all see it as further evidence of his lunacy. But because we're dealing with a respected historian, we should cut him some slack?
     
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  11. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No, the same rules apply to him as to anybody else.

    I wouldn't dismiss Ra's Al Ghul's rankings just by saying that they were ridiculous either.

    I like the analogy though!
     
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  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Callis is perhaps the best living historian. To quickly put it into context, seasoned historian once said Callis knows more about boxing than any three other historians he met.

    Tracy isn't the type to post on the web often and has tragedy losing two children.
     
  13. Bukkake

    Bukkake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    How does a historian become the "best"? By ranking Jeffries #1 heavyweight of all time?
     
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  14. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He sure ain't respected by me,and I can tell you he really doesn't take even the mildest criticism very well ,I had a debate with him about Jeffries and he shut up shop very quickly.
    I would also challenge the description of him as ,"very knowledgeable". What work of his indicates that this is accurate?
     
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  15. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    u
    Which seasoned historian said that of Callis?
    To give an analogy imo Callis couldn't carry Hank Kaplan's jock strap!
    Here are some of Callis' statements.
    Peter Jackson .
    "Faster and smoother than Joe Louis and hit just as hard".

    "Footwork similar to Ali's."

    Was 200lbs when he fought Corbett.He wasn't.

    Corbett.
    "he cut Jeffries face to shreds." He didn't.

    Ketchel.
    He was sucker-punched during the referee's [Jim Jeffries]instructions by Papke and never forgave Jeffries for it .The sucker punch is a myth.

    Jeffries.
    "he cracked two of Corbett's ribs". He didn't.
    " he broke Sharkeys nose". He didn't.

    Johnson.
    "He knocked Hart out of the ring".He didn't.

    Ratings are of course personal and subjective,below are some of Callis'

    Tunney .
    No 1 All Time LHVY No6 All Time Heavy.

    Louis.
    No 4 All Time Heavy.

    Ali.
    No5 All Time Heavy.Who would lose to Jeffries,Johnson,Dempsy,Louis.

    Fitz .
    No1 All Time Middle.No 2 All Time Lhvy. NO1 All Time P4P.

    Holmes.
    No10 All Time Heavy.

    Marciano.
    No 9 All Time Heavy.

    Ketchel .
    No 2 All Time Middle No 7 All Time P4P.

    Johnson.
    No2 All Time Heavy.
    Liston.
    No8 All Time Heavy.

    Langford .
    No7 All Time Heavy No 4All Time Lhvy.

    Greb.
    No4 All Time Middle No10All Time P4P.

    Frazier .
    No13 Al Time Heavy.

    Food for thought?

    By all accounts Callis was an excellent college football player, and a pretty decent athlete.

    NB Callis has tragically lost two children and everyone's sympathies will naturally be with him,can any occurrence be more awful?
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
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