Traditional Martial Arts in MMA

a roundhouse kick is a basic karate kick also.

 

go to any karate school watch and learn big guy.

 

yes that is a notable difference. muy thai and kyokushin are happy to his the opponents him, knee, shin, whatever.

In tkd the focus is on the solarplexus. Because we hit a soft target, then what we hit with tends to be the instep because it gives us more range, and the end of the whip is the part moving the fastest, and thus hits the hardest.

but to clarify im not saying all body & head roundhouses are only taekwondo. But that taekwondo technique (we are extremely proficient at those techniques) are highly effective, and used in mma.

 

it doesn't matter if it's taught. i want to see it practiced or the ideologies being taught are forming a particular style.

Generally, I do not think karate arm block, they look to establish distance as an overwhelming preference.

 

This is more or less correct. Shotokan Karate is schizophrenic. They're wedded to katas and prearranged one-step sparring drills that still use the "classical" blocks, but in actual competition they bounce on their toes and rely on distance. Kinda like the difference between Classical Arabic and colloquial Arabic, oddly enough (write in one, speak in another).

Obviously a broad generalization, but it has a grain of truth.

 

This seems correct. Taekwondo came from shotokan karate and our poomsae are based on their katas. Also, we have many 'one-step sparring' types. IMO the old way of doing things before full contact competition was regulated properly. Perhaps provides some proficiency in self defense, good for focus and exercise, but defiantly below bagwork, sparring drills, and actual sparring in combative value.

 

That would sort of explain Nick Diaz vs Koji Oishi fight; his camp tried to bring in a kata type defense because he probably never really actual karate in a competitive sense. I want to be fair to Oishi though, he is a talented fighter with a wrestling base. He was a Pancrase guy, held wins over Chris Lytle and Kitaoka. He obviously knew how to fight.

He also had beat Nate Diaz; obviosly Lytle, Kitaoka; and Nick where all not the fighters they are now, but they were still very good.

Why he chose that night to fight that weight is a mystery, but it proved that arm blocking kata-style will get you beat mercilesly by an awkward boxer.

 

guess which kick is most commonly thrown in Taekwondo?

muy thai being older than TKD would be a huge and complex debate. Taekwondo is considered to be over 2000 years old. But that depends on what you still consider 'tkd'.

But yes, modern taekwondo 'shi-hap' kyorugi (olympic tkd) is about 40 years old or so.

What I'm saying is that roundhouses are a Taekwondo technique. Not that roundhouses are only a Taekwondo technique.

also, there are many variations of roundhouse kicks in both sports. Many muy thai roundhouse kicks are not used in taekwondo, and visa versa. So if you are implying that TKD got it's fighting style from muy thai, no.

no its not. Bumfights was more realistic.

I think they train as hard. I think korean taekwondo olympians (and a few select foreigners) train as hard or harder for a longer and more consistent period of time than most any sport in the world. (example, floyd mayweather trains from childhood up but many boxers were not so consistent, whereas in korea the top 50 Taekwondo fighters have/will most likely be undergoing continuous cyclical training from age 5 to age 27 or so.)

 

You said that roundhouses are "all TKD" obviously you see why people thought you were saying TKD was the only roundhouse, you apparantly were not saying that, but you get why people though you did right?

Well bumfights is Vale Tudo more or less, just less skilled, so again Vale Tudo is the closest simulation we have.

You are delusional if you think that wrestlers, Judokas, weightlifters, swimmers, hell, every fuching world class athlete don't train as hard or harder.

In fact, TKD has a lower participation pool than many sports, so it's an easy argument to make that it takes less hard work in TKD to be the best because you are taking on less people than say wrestlers or certainly runners.

I'm not insulting TKD, especially as a sport on it's own, but the moment you pretend they are harder working than boxers or wrestlers (I said harder, not equal) that is major issue.

 

yeah, totally. And Im not angry at anyone who took it that way, it is understandable.

vale tudo =/=UFC

but yeah vale tudo has higher skilkl than bumfights from what I have seen. Are there any rules at all out of curiosity?

I trained at the US olympic training center before, I saw swimmers in the building across the way, judokas on the other side of the gym, weightlifters in the cafeteria.

And yes, I would be delusional to think so, the human body can only take so much. All olympic sports push it to the max. I do however, know that many elite level Taekwondo fighters have a zen-like consistency in their training regimine

it depends on how you look at it. Taekwondo is the largest martial art in the world. Arguably the largest sport in the world. (FYI if you did track in gym class you are counted as a track athlete, whereas TKD practitioners counted are actually TKD practitioners).

In america 2-a-week classes @ 45 mins are commonplace because of our consumerist society. Kyorugi participation levels in america are very low compared to all the people that take taekwondo casually. Incidentally, children in korea function in a similar manner. But most other countries (Iran for example kicks ass in TKD because they all fight) focus kyorugi much more. Korea focuses everything. I can tell you this, if you do not train multiple times a day consistently for a long time, you will not even have a shot at winning a US national medal.

Taejin son, the 2008 korean olympic gold medalist fought his NEXT TOURNAMENT in korea and lost his first match. The next tournament he got KO'd in the final. Americans run around thinking he is washed up but koreans are trying to explain that if you are #1 in tkd in korea, it is only for a millisecond because there are hundreds of people who could have beat you.

Im not trying to say you are being ignorant, but I am saying that Your view of international level taekwondo competition is probably somewhat limited, especially considering most americans exposure to taekwondo is some ATA school.

Thank you very much for being respectful. I cannot say harder. I feel long term consistency in the korean elite level is more common.

but as athletes, it is a case by case basis. All work to the point of complete exhaustion.

I am actually surprised that you knew the intensity of TKD training, some people think you can go to lessons a few times a week and win an olympic gold or some ****.

 

Vale tudo is more a lose term that covers fights with no to almost no rules, so it varies.

I didn't neccesarily mean martial art, plus boxing and wrestling are usually not counted as "martial arts" but either way, Im just saying in order to be the best at anything you need insane hard work, no matter the activity.

Assuming general levels of natural gifts within a normal range; the hardest working backgammon player will be the best, or at least the best will be one of the hardest working, same for swimming, same for soccer, same for...well you get it.

East-Asia countries tend to have ritualistic and almost humiliation aspects to their hard work, but I don't take that as harder, just cultural; but as with all sports, the inventors rarely stay on top permanantly, and Iran and others are now doing well in world TKD with different approaches

By the way, what are some if he differences in styles with say Korea vs Iran? In Judo for example the Slavic countries tend to be very grinding, they use a lot of non-Ippon throws and focus more than most on ground work, based on their experience with wrestling and sambo; Japan tends to be more upright and "pure" (in their eyes) based more on less overall takedowns but higher scoring throws and less ground work.

 

sounds like it did when it was first described to me.

I agree people dont tend to call boxing wrestling or even competitive shooting a 'martial art' for that reason.

I don't like the term martial art at all, it is a complete misnomer. The 'do' in Ju-do, Karate-do, Ken-do, Aki-do, Taekwon-do, kyun-do, etc... does not mean art at all. When people read the actual translation of the hanja/kanji they usually realize that boxing is just as much of a martial practice than karate.

Yes, Recently in Korea I was allowed to watch a young-inn university team Taekwondo pracitce for their A & some B team members. It was unbelievable. We had some of the US national team there with us, and all but 2 of them were afraid to even go out there and workout with them. The coach had a stick he was wacking people with when people werent working hard enough.

but even though it sounds like something out of a movie, it wont physically make you be able to handle more work than anything. Just ensures you dont slack.

Interesting how their sambo influences their judo.

Iranians put a lot of pressure on their kids to be tough. They go out there and FIGHT. Kinda like the same rep mexican boxers have. If they are loosing in the last 30 seconds, they dont care, they will go ape**** and just kick nonstop until something hits. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt.

Korean are intense, yet when they need points badly they remain technically sound in their actions which is hard to do. Also, they all fight pretty much the same. Some specialize a bit in a different kick than another, but the way they move and mix it up tends to be universal among koreans. It is because they intermix so much in competition.

Americans are all over the place. We have had people fight like Iranians, koreans, and all kinds of stuff. A major flaw, IMO, is a rule that (along with a ton of hard work) led steven lopez (USA) to win 5 world championships, 2 olympic golds, and an olympic broze. He wins most of his fights in OT, and is the 'floyd mayweather' of tkd. He is slick. Many times referees are lax on fighters lifting their lead leg to defend against body shots with their shin (as is done in muy thai). I know it is a practical defense that is very simple and easy to use, but there is a major problem with it.

It becomes a competition of 'lets see who is taller'. Steven is like 6'6 and he could cut down well in weight. also, he has very long legs, high hipline. It becomes very difficult for shorter people to hit anything.

That is one flaw that has been in and out of tkd for a bit, but there are some others leading to the 'slick' fighter winning.

Honestly I would like to hear similarly how the rules effect judo and jujitsu competitions.

 

First thing that comes to mind is that Judo Rules encourage "turtling" or going to your knees and essentially giving up your back, so as not to be held down for a pin, which can win a match.

First thing that comes to mind for BJJ/No-gi is that it encourages cowardice standing; rather than risk losing points to a takedown, one competitor will usually just sit down. Even when doing this results in negative points, it still isn't as much as a takedown for the other guy. The butt flopper's, poor, argument is that he is simply playing to his advantage, and that the other guy is just as afraid of jumping into his guard as he is of being taken down. Now, that might sort of make sense in that in some abstract sense they are both either afraid/playing to their advantage by looking for a takedown or buttflopping; and in sport BJJ/sub-grappling there is nearly no disadvantage to being on bottom

In reality though, both sports should be better account for what would happen in a real fight; I say this not because I consider MMA then end all be all, but because the nature of these sports was originally to find a way of effectively fighting with grappling techniques or however you want to phrase it. The sports should not allow or especially reward bad habbits that go against the nature of their sport.

I don't know exactly what Judo can do to prevent turtling without drastically changing the rules; and I don't want to go that far.

I do know exactly what BJJ/No-Gi should do; any time you go from a standing position to a position on your back or your ass, you have been taken down and your opponent is rewarded the full points for it. I don't care if you pull him down with you and have full control of him, I don't care if you ****ing trip, I don't care if he stands there and looks at you in disgust from a distance the rest of the match, he should get takedown points. If you buttflop and buttscoot around the mat trying to drag him down and fail, you lose the match, if you buttflop, stand up, and buttflop again, thats 2 takedowns.