Tribute to Smokin' Joe

And Ali is probably the most ballyhooed - maybe even by me! In fantasy matchups, Ali "beats" Louis, Lewis, Tyson, Robinson, everybody! But no excuses save Ali from the whipping Frazier gave him: sure, he lacked fighting regularity, but he went 15 with Bonavena, was young, strong, experienced, unpunished. Frazier was already breaking down physically. Frazier's margin of victory is key to appreciate his greatness. A more fighting-shape, peak Ali would make it closer, but by how much? Again, around Round 5 Ali tried dancing and Frazier immediately closed the gap and stayed right on his target, "like a baby is at his mother's breast". God, Frazier had enough in the tank to floor the so-called iron-chinned Ali in the 15th round!

The Foreman drubbing coupled with Zaire and Manila hurt Frazier and elevate Ali, but they obscure the above simple facts and the best Frazier was long gone. Styles make fights. If you were not an all-time great puncher, Frazier was a nightmare of pressure, always coming for you with murderous power and indomitability.

If we are so careful to look only at Tyson's peak from '86 to '88 and Ali's from '64 to '67, then we must appreciate Frazier at his searing best from about '67 (breaking Chuvalo) to '71. THAT is Joe Frazier. By comparison, Joe was a pale shadow in Manila, and even so took Ali to the brink of death.

And just as a boxing fan, I love Smokin' Joe in the ring: the look of a MAN, courteous, and ALL BUSINESS, pushin', chuggin', workin', always forward, up and down, left and right, no pain, no strain, just WINNIN' in mind, till the other guy "eventually break".

Ali had gifts - height and reach and better ability to negotiate power punches among them - that Frazier lacked, and on merits is rightfully placed where he is. But being a man of non-ideal heavyweight qualities, Frazier cleaned out the division - beating all comers - including Ali himself. He was a great champion, and pound-for-pound, I with Ali also want to picture Smokin' Joe next to me if God ever calls me to holy war.

 

Excellent point. Pound-for-pound, Frazier shines even brighter. Under equal conditions, Frazier is a nightmare to any man. Give him an advantage, and you are ground horsemeat. End of story!

 

Well, Joe was far from perfect, of course. But he was a genuine, underprivileged man who became the best in the world at what he did - no scandals included. He raised a beautiful family. He was honorable. And he helped Ali in his time of need! I disagree Ali was fake - a topic perhaps for another thread - but his treatment of Frazier was stupid, unforgivable, and I respect those who disdain him for it.

 

There is an element in the media - Ali's generation - that misinforms by painting Ali like a saint, and many millions or perhaps even a billion or two around the world in due course eat it up because they don't follow the sport. Groupies are inexcusable, though, when Ali's racist rants against Frazier and his womanizing are clearly on the record. But perhaps your rightful disdain for your father's worship of Ali should not turn you away from the good Ali managed to do in his own right?

 

Thanks for the chuckle and stories! Frazier was a funny guy!