Truly Great Heavyweights

Yeah, but Holme's has dozens of of more fights than Marciano and had a career that was literally three times as long as Marciano's.

An eight year career leaves something to be desired in some aspects.

 

I would put it like this:

Ali: Won the title three times. The first time as a brasch 22-year old that no one gave a chance in hell against the invincible monster that was Sonny Liston, and the second time as a 32-year old who came back after 3,5 year lay-off and brutal losses against Frazier and Norton to win back the title from the invincible monster of the day, Foreman, in an absolutely unprecendented fashion. Also had perhaps the greatest trilogy of fights of all times against Frazier.

Johnson: Like Ali many years later Johnson was totally his own creation. Was the first to break the colour line and then utterly dominated all white contenders. He put everything completely on its head and schocked the world in a way that even Ali didn't manage.

Louis: Even though his image was the product of his managers, as a fighter he stands out. Was the first one to break the colour line after Johnson (whose reign probably made it even more watertight until the coming of Louis), cleaned out the division even before getting the title and then utterly dominated it for the next 10+ years. Won 26 of his 27 title fights, and managed to to become the nr. 1 contender long after his prime. Nuff said.

Foreman: Managed to exorcise the ghost of Zaire in the most story-book kind of way possible. To regain the title at 44 after a 10 year lay-off is just nothing short of amazing. As a single feat in boxing only Armstrong's three simultanous titles in different divisions can compare.

Holmes: Had a very impressive title reign and, like Foreman, showed fantastic strength of character in his comeback. Was competitive with the best even in his forties.

 

A month after saying he was beaten fairly and could never have beaten Johnson .Jeffries said he was drugged with a cup of tea,this was printed in the papers.Seems he couldnt handle the reality of his defeat though he had the legitimate excuse he was far past his best.I beleive he later recanted his assertion ,as did Foreman after his ko by Ali.

 

Marciano fought his mandatory # 1 contenders, unlike Larry. Marciano also gave rematches in close fights unlike Larry.

 

I rank Marciano over Holmes in this "Greatness thing"

I know people say Holmes had more fights and fought longer ete. But So did Whitaker, compare to Henry Armstrong. People tend to forget that Swarmers tend to burn out faster, I mean hey there is a reason why Louis, Ali, Holyfiled, Lewis had longer runs than Marciano and Joe Frazier, there styles were ment to last. Do we take points because the Rock retire and Fraizer burn out in regards to greatness??
Terry McGoven burn out after a few years also. Taking hits and battling back, though great in regards to action, tend to make a guy retire faster.

Sure if we judge greatness because Holmes fought longer than ok, But Marciano clean out his division, gave rematchs when they needed it, and fought his number 1 contenders. Holmes failed to do that, and so did Jack Dempsey.

I have it
Louis
Ali
Marciano and perhaps Jack Johnson pre title.

 

I think Schmeling was truly a good human being. I don't believe that he bout into the whole Nazi regime of Adolf Hitler's reign. He served in the German military during World War II, but that was because Hitler was punishing him for losing to Louis. I think he is unduely linked as being a symbol of Nazi Germany, when in fact, he was just another fighter trying to make it at the time.

 

excellent post dempsey.




- As much as a antagonist and public con he was, Sonny Liston should get an honorable mention here. Liston cleaned out the division and all the top ranked heavyweights clearly and thoroughly you cant ask for more than that. As far as historical signifigance goes, Liston fought in a time where mob controlled boxing, and liston beat the system without the mobs help.

 

Ali, Louis, Holmes and Lewis are the absolute elite. Liston comes next. The rest fight for the remaining places.



Ps: Marciano legacy-wise probably rates ahead of Liston, but ain't as impressive on film (ie: falls short in terms of fundamental skills, size plus how he'd fare in other eras etc).

 

it will all depend on opinion

 

Holmes, NO. if he had fought and beat Spoon Rematch, pinklon thomas and mandatory # 1 greg page, then he would be.......but he didn't.