Truly Great Heavyweights

Yep...In fact the mob hurt him more than helped him

Because no mob controlled fighter would have been thrown in against the most dangerous contenders in the division if they didnt think he could win

If Liston had help from the mob if he was protected, why would they throw him in vs a 19-1 dangerous contender like Johnny Summerlin not once but twice?

Why was he scheduled to take on ATG hall of famer harold johnson in his 12th pro fight??

He won a high number of rounds on every post fight newspaper/experts cards as well. Why do you not understand this. there was no controvesry of the decision, everyone had liston winning a minimum of 8 rounds and most including myself had liston winning 9 to 10 rounds. Have you ever scored the fight?

Liston was the effective aggressor he landed the better punches, landed his jab, and controlled the tempo of the fight even with machen running and defending the whole fight. as liston said about the machen fight "it takes two to tango. Machen wouldn't fight me".

thats all pure speculation and has as much credibility as the claims that Liston was forced to throw the ali fights by the mob.

 

how so? what in marcianos filmed fights/records shows he could be kayoed by one punch? has marciano ever lost?


Lennox has been knocked out twice by one punch

 

There is no evidence one punch could knock marciano down for the 10 count. the same can't be said of lennox who has been knocked out twice by one punch

 

The plane crash proved that. Marcianos iron chin/head was decapitated.:shock:

 

Yes I think he could but not one punch. Im kind of pulling everyones chain and havin some fun with the whole "lennox suffered 2 one punch knockouts losses to B level fighters".........I jst like sayin it to rile lennox supporters.


In a real fight to the finish.....lennox DOES NOT knock marciano. why? because he doesnt fight to knock marciano out. He fights the same way he fights tua and tries to strategically win a unanimous decision. I could also see lennox getting careless and marciano catching him in mid rounds and finishing him off, but I really think lennox will have to take alot of punishment when tired in late rounds off marciano, can lennox survive late round assault? I also think if lennox catches rock with a uppercut, he has the firepower to finish rock off but i see that as the least likely result due to styles. marciano in his crouch would be very ackward and uneasy for lennox to reach down and hit cleanly.

 

Like i said, he did not take the easy road up, but his ass certainly was covered by the judges.

Well, it depends on how much you score (ineffective) aggression or clean but not particularly concussive or damaging (apart from puffing his face) punching. It's been a while seen i've seen this fight and unfortunately i dont' have it anymore, so while i thought it was close, i can't provide a score.

You having Liston 9 to 10 rounds does not mean that much, you rate Liston the #2 HW so you're clearly biased towards him. Old Fogey, an as-objective-as-it-gets poster with a lot of credibilty scored it a close one that could've gone either way.

What he meant was: "Machen wouldn't let me hit him and i'm too slow to adept."

Okay, so how much credibility is that ?

 

I like Old Fogey as much as anybody but even he had liston winning 7 rounds.


Check out all the experts opinions, newspaper opinions of the fight and you will see most of them had liston clearly winning. AP had it 9 rounds to 3 for Liston.

 

If a WIDE decision win over a top young master boxer contender is your best critisism of a prime liston, perhaps he is better than you thought.

 

Jim Jeffries was the best of his times, Jack Johnson,Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Ali.......I will not go beyound that era for now but I would consider some fighters that came after Ali

 

Holmes had an awful lot more skill than Rocky. Now Rocky was no crude caevman, had a more than decent defence but I do think that the time was perfect for him. Marciano beat great fighters who were just over the brow of the hill. His all action style and stamina was a toxic combination for Charles and Walcott. Both of these gusy showed themselves as superior boxers but they didn't have the legs anymore to keep Rocky away. Just to repeat, no way were the guys shot, they were still top fighters but could Rocky have done this to Larry Holmes, a guy who held a shot better and who would be peppering Rocky with jabs all night? I don't see Marciano being able to catch Holmes later on, which is what he would need to do.

Marciano and Jeffries do seem to get granted superhuman powers in terms of endurance. Their ability to come back in fights they are losing and score dramatic KO victories really thrills fans like me. But I do wonder... taking round after round of counters from and Ali or a Holmes is much different to Corbett or even a Walcott. Add to this that Rocky missed a lot of punches. I know he was a swarmer and that was his game but even so...

Marciano, for me, is a solid second tier HW in the roll call of greats. I can see him being rated anywhere from about 5-12.

I think with Holmes you can argue either way. I believe he makes that top tier and I think even if you don't, you must think that he's close.