Tua vs. Jeffries

I understand your logic but I think that you are overgeneralizing when you lump together "tall punchers" as a group. These men each beat Tua/gave him difficulties by fighting off their back feet & consistently turning him, protecting themselves with tight guards, and -- just as importantly--hitting him with regular stiff jabs and hard punches. For all of your criticisms about Tua's speed, energy, or hittability, etc., he was light years beyond the men Jeffries faced. Tua exerted tremendous pressure even when he wasn't throwing punches, constantly closed the distance with his opponents, and could throw devastating punches explosively. Jeffries had a great repertoire for his era and outshined his limited opponents, but I don't see him having the style or skill set to keep Tua off of him.

BTW, Jeffries doesn't have the physical advantages that the men you've mentioned enjoyed over Tua. Lewis and Rahman were significantly bigger than Jeffries, had much longer reaches, and from what I can tell had much more effective jabs. Ibeabuchi was a block of granite with devastating power, handspeed, and work rate (even Maskaev was a bit bigger with a longer reach).

 

You said outdoor fights , I asked which outdoor fights Sharkey had and you haven't answered the question because you have no idea.

You made a statement ,its up to you to prove
it!
You talk from ignorance.

Sharkey had a total of 13 fights in the summer months,Jun-end of Aug,4 of them were in the UK three of those in Ireland.
I'll be in New York in July, want to meet up and debate this face to face?

 

Jeffries never went past 25 rds and he did it by waiting for the other guy [Sharkey ], whom he outweighed by 27lbs, to make all the running which he did. It was a very close fight .
Why couldn't Tua do better than Sharkey, he is bigger ,more durable, hits harder , has better defence ,and all round boxing skills ?
Tua ran opponents out of gas, and has the punch stats against Ike that are off the charts for two such big men,where do you get this ,he lacked stamina from?

These are two more questions you haven't answered.

 

The tall punchers I listed in many cases were not as good as Jeffries, and lacked a good chin and were nothing but average on Defense ( Exclude Lewis ) add Maskeav and Rhaman.

Are you saying Rahman and Maskeav are better than Jeffries? That would be foolish. They outboxed and beat Tua.

Jeffries did better vs the bigger men he faced. His record will show you that. Jeffries could hang back and film and hit men coming in, When he injured his left shoulder vs Sharkey, he kept the Sailor at bay with straight punches from the right hand and head-snapping uppercuts.

Athletically speaking in terms of movement and stamina, Tua is light years behind the men Jeffries faced, most notably Corbett and Choysnki. Good athletes ( as Jeffries was ) have their own brand of offense and defense even if their technique was off in your eyes, and there is the limited film to judge. Ali was unorthodox but got away with things.

As for Jeffries defense, he had a nice slip and duck which can be seen on film and good overall defense at his peak.

When they clinch, it won't help Tua as it will drain his stamina, and he can;t afford to lose much of that in this fight.

 

Tua never went past 12! Tua had better overall skills He punked out vs Chris Byrd and as stated was easily out boxed by other chinny or stamina chalaleged pucnhers.

 

Neither Rahman or Maskaev beat Tua.:-(
Neither Corbett or Choynski would beat Tua.
Jeffries finished his brief career with scar-tissue over both eyes ,a cauliflower ear, and a nose that had been broken multiple times.He was often cut and bleeding when he pulled off a stoppage because he was younger, bigger, and stronger than his opponents. and prepared to take their punches to wear them down
The idea that he had "good overall defence" is absurd.

 

Not going past 12 rounds does not indicate that he couldn't.

On a side note Tua didn't often go 12 rds,only 16 of his 59 fights went the distance ,8 of them when he was 35 years or older! So 8 men went the distance with him when he was anywhere prime and these weren't old men coming out of years of retirement scaling around 180lbs these were big guys.
In his peak prime Tua was taken the route only 5 times by
Rahman 259lbs
Byrd 215lbs
Wooden 225lbs
Ibeabuchi 235lbs
Lewis 249lbs
The smallest of these , Byrd at 6'1.5" 215lbs ,was bigger and heavier than any man of class that Jeffries ever met.

 

Tuas stamina did not magically improve for one fight. His workrate dropped against opponents that managed distance well and kept him at the end of their punches. But anyone that stood in front of him was in for a world of pain.

Jeffries wasn't a slick boxer. He was a pressure fighter that outmuscled and grinded down smaller and older opponents. In Tua he would be facing a bulldozer who wasn't far off in height, was 10-15 pound heavier with a cast iron chin, a great workrate and hellacious power.

 

I don't know whether they were better than Jeffries. I'll say this though-- I'd absolutely pick any of them to beat anyone that Jeffries beat. As I explained above, my position has always been that heavyweight boxing has evolved immensely since the early 20th century. Pressure fighters are far, far more adept at closing distance. Big men are far, far more adept at controlling the range of the fight with their jabs and straight punches. When I watch turn of the 20th century footage, I see far less punching from range. I see smaller fighters who don't know how to close the distance while staying in fighting position. People here seem to take for granted the huge differences between fighting a bigger, longer fighter who is constantly pumping jabs in your face while moving and one who is not. Even big non-ATGs like Rahman and Maskaev have styles and skills that are more conducive to beating Tua. NOTE: Neither of them did though.

Not impressed by the skill level or techniques of those opponents so those performance do virtually nothing for me in this context.

I still disagree with your claims about Tua's stamina-- he wore opponents down; they did not wear him down. Also, I think you greatly underestimate his mobility. There seems to be a misperception here that he "couldn't catch up to" some of his opponents because he wasn't fast enough. This mistaken view ignores the importance of throwing regular punches in keeping Tua at bay.

 

Excellent post!:good

 

:deal

 

What's all the enamored thoughts concerning a soso contender like Tua? Very limited hwt aside from left hook power. I never was impressed by his skills in any way. He felt Lewis power in round one and fought to survive for the remaining 11. Jeffries you could hit with a shovel and he would be there looking to win at all times. Tua would be mauled by prime Jeffries.

 

Are you impressed with Tom Sharkeys skills?
Tua is on film scoring ko's and kd's with his right hand,it's about time you dropped this BS.

 

Jeffries could box, out the land, out hit or out maul Tua. He had faster feet and hands, was 3x the athlete with 4x the stamina and pretty much every measurable advantage, except for waist and that's a good thing.

Unless you think Rahman and Maskeav are better than Jeffries, Tua's a loser here. Jeffries could hang bag and box just fine. He also had a deadly short hook and uppercut on the inside.

 

This isn't a Sharkey thread and the film on his is limited and second rate.

Oh how I wish I was in NY. Might I suggest you visit The Bramford. West 72nd Street – Upper West Side – Manhattan. You'll fit right in, trust me