Tunney v Frazier

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BlackCloud, Aug 26, 2016.

  1. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Bronsonville Full Member

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  2. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    At some point, Walker vs Steele will return and we'll all suffer a mortifying fate.
     
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  3. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Bronsonville Full Member

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    Surprised that beast hasn't been bumped tbh.
     
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  4. Johnny_B

    Johnny_B Well-Known Member Full Member

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  5. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Tunney would defeat Frazier just like he defeated all his other black opponents!
     
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  6. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    Good morning, you come 16 months late....!
     
  7. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Sometimes a new quote will have me check out threads I never saw before, & if there are not too many pages, I tend to read everything.
    Surely-if I may call you Shirley ;-) you recognize Frazier had a higher work rate, a better left hook, from reports & considering commitment to punches at a higher natural body weight hit harder...& was a better inside fighter.

    Other things are debatable & you can credit Tunney with some advantages, & in some cases we cannot tell who to favor-since Tunney fought so little at HW-even when they were smaller then-& did not get hit as much as many, we do not know the extent & limits of his chin.

    But you must admit that saying something like Tunney is better at everything betrays inarguable bias.
     
  8. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Podcast EVERY SOMETIMES youtube.com/lordlegender Full Member

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    Walker vs Steele becoming a massive issue still surprises me to this day, i shouldve seen it coming, knowing the strange steele fanbase here, but still.....

    Like you expect Marciano Liston to blow up but Walker vs Steele? just strange. Doesnt follow the tried and true "heavyweight vs larger, more modern heavyweight who accomplished not even 1/10th as much" bait
     
  9. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    looool

    There's not even a big Steele fan base on here imo, if anything I think walker has more fans.
     
  10. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Podcast EVERY SOMETIMES youtube.com/lordlegender Full Member

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    Walker deserves more fans lmao, for now niche steele is half his supporters are here I stg
     
  11. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    How you mean deserves more fans looool

    Walker is more overrated here than Steele is, just by fewer people.
     
  12. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    But Brewster and Tua had possible a better left hook than Frazier, let alone to mention Tyson.
    But quality is more important than quantity and his most significant wins were at Heavyweight, as even the last over Greb, that vs. Carpentier and Gibbons (he was in any over the Light-Heavyweight limit) and these were likely sold out as Heavyweight fights. The Frenchman was maybe top 3 in the division when Dempsey defended his title against whom.

    Also did Tunney repeat his win vs. Dempsey (after who won an elimination bout by knockout over Sharkey), Frazier couldn't do the same and has a negative match-rate vs. his two best opponents, although Ali was clear past his best. I don't think that Quary, Ellis, Matthis and Bonavena were much better than the opposition of Tunney (rather on the same level). So the later was a lot more successful, according their records. He was also more variable, slicker and moved better, as he was just smarter and had the greater general ringship.
     
  13. The Undefeated Lachbuster

    The Undefeated Lachbuster Podcast EVERY SOMETIMES youtube.com/lordlegender Full Member

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    Walker is an atg who fought like, everyone in the most famous era of boxing

    Walker was a Middleweight champ for 3 years and didn't face Yarosz in the 30s

    Ergo one is forgotten
     
  14. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    Thanks for the update
     
  15. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    OK, but first, you did what soooo many do: when called politely on being wrong about some things, avoided it & moved on to other matters.
    Again better for credibility & more fair is to acknowledge things like saying Tunney is better than Frazier in all aspects is completely incorrect & betrays bias.


    Now about your new arguments...
    I do not think any of those 3 had a better or even as good of a left hook than Frazier, who if you consider frequency, accuracy & repeatability is superior.
    Sure some threw it even harder. Nobody else could land it so often & effectively, even when you knew it was coming.

    However even if you were right, that does nothing to support any argument for Tunney.
    Tunney did nothing better than ALL HWs ever-does not mean that is an argument against his greatness.

    Tunney did not face opposition as good as either Ali or Foreman.
    Greb *maybe* in a p4p sense, but at a 5' 8" MW that is all.
    Dempsey said his legs were gone, & clearly had also lost accuracy. Ali past his best was still superb through Manilla.
    Foreman was a Monster who had a stylistic advantage.
    For Tunney to approximate that quality of victory, he would have needed to beat a Prime, ATG swarmer like Frazier. Which few think he could do.

    Start a thread on the opposition of Tunney at HW vs. Frazier.
    Opinion will be nearly unanimous about Frazier's being somewhat better.

    Slicker & moved better as a boxer type, absolutely.
    Smarter, maybe, but if you have great success as a swarmer or slugger & stick to that strategy that shows no deficit of intelligence-even if you style does not require as much adjustment.
    Better ring general, no. Frazier was terrific at cutting off the ring, the job of a swarmer. Both were great at this skill.

    You could argue that Tunney was better P4P! I like him a lot, so tough & a superb record.
    But he was fighting at max 175 (no day before weigh ins) against similar sized men.

    His record at HW is just limited.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020 at 1:30 AM
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