Tunney vs. Liston

Who did he ever beat over 15 that was remotely in Liston's league as a heavyweight?

 

prolly noone so we have to deduce solely from how each fared against certain matchups which is less than ideal

 

Half the forum picks Holmes to beat Foreman. What’s Holmes’ best win?

Pretty easy game to play.

 

I'd pick Holmes to beat Foreman too,and I don't think George wanted that fight.Your previous posts have given me the impression you are not a member of Larry's Fan Club.

 

Norton, Cooney, Snipes, Berbick, Weaver, Shavers, Mercer, Witherspoon, Bonecrusher are all better than a LHW Gibbons in his last fight, a shot Dempsey in his last fights, a LHW Carpentier in his final fights...

That's the game, set and match played.

 

That wasn’t my point.

 

Holmes won’t win a résumé clash with Tunney.

 

Like he won against Leotis Martin?

 

Like when Tunney to lost Harry Greb

 

We have the films. Howard Cosell noted Liston's huffing and puffing as his match with the durable but relatively immobile Henry Clark proceeded. Eddie Machen went the distance with peak Sonny despite having only a healthy left and badly injured right. Former Liston 199 pound sparring partner Leotis Martin stayed away until Liston suddenly gassed. We saw how Whitehurst did in their rematch, a situation where Bert was badly outsized and had no potential for hurting the much bigger man.

Along with rivals Greb and Loughran, Tunney was absolutely fearless, extremely unusual among fighters. There is no possibility for Sonny to intimidate Gene, as was the case for Machen in dealing with Liston. (Clay actually was afraid of Sonny.)

Tunney wore down the previously impervious Tommy Gibbons, eventually mastered the blindingly fast and indefatigable Windmill. Yes, he got decked by Dempsey, but Jack was still considerably faster than Liston ever became, and Gene recovered quickly and well enough to shove Dempsey off him at the bell.


Here, I see Tunney retreating and running to start out, just as he did with Tommy Gibbons, but then, Gene was outscoring a defensive master three and four punches to one.

Gene's peak performance came in his final match, with the 203 pound Tom Heeney, a pretty tough and durable 20 round fighter until after Tunney got through with him.

It can be argued that 210 pound Liston ruined 201 pound Willie Besmanoff's durability and contention potential, but still, he didn't come close to going down despite absorbing everything Sonny had prior to the ringside physican stopping it on cuts.

Sonny does not last the Championship Distance. He tires out following a continually following Liston behind a continual barrage from Gene until succumbing in the Championship Rounds. Gene too fast, too durable, too smart, too fearless, and Liston too slow.

 

Yap yap yap

 

At head to head heavyweight it is not even a contest. Not even in the same zip code.

 

Someone butthurt...how many excuses for this one?

 

That’s not what I said though, is it?

I picked Liston to win this fight cautiously, but I knew exactly what we’d see in this thread. Liston is suddenly going to steamroll a fighter far superior & infinitely more proven than the the likes of Machen & Whitehurst. Sure, he is.

 

Greb was p4p goat and one of the best LHWs while Martin was journeyman level fighter with no good chin.

Comparing Greb with Martin is delusional because Greb even being smaller beat so many better guys than Martin.