Tunney vs Louis

It's possible, but i don't think Tunney can take the punishment when Louis catches up with him. And i think that happens before a rematch.

 

Tunney could grab 1 out of 3. On one hand, I think Tunney is better than Billy Conn in most ways, on the other, a badly faded Dempsey was able to catch up with Tunney and drop him. A prime Louis could certainly do so, quicker and more effectively, and he'd be able to finish it, too.

 

The only oponent who could take Louis 2 times out of 3 is old age.

 

Tunney UD. Come one guys, if Pastor, Conn, Walcott, and Farr could pretty much be even on rounds collectively vs Louis, then so could Tunney.

The difference is Tunney is smarter and more durable than any of the " cute " boxer types who gave Louis fits, and if you ask me he hits harder than 3 of the 4 guys I listed.

 

We have to look at styles here. Gene Tunney kept his hands too low, chin out too much to not get knocked out by the greatest puncher of all time. Tunney had the fast feet but he didnt have the amazing head movement/upperbody fast twitch reflexes needed to avoid louis punches with a low gaurd.


On a last thought, Mcgrain, and Mendoza, what heavyweight did tunney ever beat with Prime Louis Size, Speed, Power, Skill? How many heavyweights did Tunney fight that were even louis size?

 

This is ridiculous. Louis beat Pastor 8 rounds to 2, and clearly cleanly beat Farr with a hurt right hand. Your just nitpicking here He struggled with Conn but knocked him out and Conn was just as good as gene. As for Walcott, I think Walcott was better than gene, but even a aging louis knocked walcott out.


2ndly, what heavyweight did tunney ever face as big as tommy farr?

 

I wish we had access to the newspapers of the mid-30's when surely
the boxing "experts' were talking this hypothetical Tunney-Louis matchup.

One thing Tunney did was to study Dempsey for several years and develop the exact plan to beat him, plus the two 10 round fights played into Tunney's hands.

Tunney would bring a battleplan that would frustrate Louis.....and his right hand might do the same damage that Max Schmeling's did.

But to do it over 15 rounds....and not make a mistake will be difficult.

Louis by TKO late.

 

I believe that Dempsey was faster on his feet than Louis, even at the stage of his career in which he faced Tunney. Gene is a bad style match-up for Joe. If Tunney were succeeding the way Conn had, I would expect him to finish a similar fight.

It is just that Gene comes from an era that still didn't face all fighters. Good white fighters faced almost exclusively white fighters. Louis faced the best opposition that I know of from his time. Dempsey avoided his biggest threat, and that in turn hurts the legacy of Tunney.

I have to give Louis the nod in being able to figure out Tunney. I think Louis proved himself to be in a class most fighters from previous decades will never be able to enter with their limited resumes.

 

Not ridiculous. Louis guard was low too, but his footwork was slow and predictable. Louis was not a fighter to adapt in the ring. Watch the flims. Shcemling out boxed Louis easy. Conn was up on points, and so was Walcott in BOTH fights. Tunney would out box Louis, but he was not fool, and was never KO'd in 83+ fights.

Here's the Louis vs Pastor I. Hardly a good showing for Louis.

OE LOUIS IN STRANGE SPECTACLE

(Associated Press, January 29, 1937)

MADISON SQUARE GARDEN, New York -- Before a howling, near-capacity crowd of18,000, Joe Louis, minus his fistic bombs, outpointed Bob Pastor, nimble ex-college boxer, tonight in a ten-round pursuit match that presented one of the strangest heavyweight spectacles witnessed in the Garden's battle-pit in many a harvest moon.

Entering the ring on the short end of 10 to 1 odds, Pastor spotted Louis
nearly twenty-five pounds, then put on a reverse brand of footwork with such success that he weathered the limit of ten full rounds without once being seriously damaged, much less knocked off his feet.

Baffled by his opponent's back-pedaling, swift-circling tactics, Louis not
only failed to explode any of the punching dynamite for which he is famous but actually was hard-pressed to gain anything like a decisive margin on points over the artfully dodging former New York University fullback.

On the Associated Press score sheet, Louis was credited with only five of the ten rounds -- the first, fourth, fifth, eighth and ninth. Pastor took the
second, third, sixth and tenth while the seventh was registered even.

Referee Arthur Donovan and the two judges, George Le Cron and Charley Lynch,scored unanimously for Louis.

The crowd, officially put at 18,864 customers, with gross gate receipts of
$111,570.60, booed the verdict lustily and jeered Louis as the obviously
crestfallen Brown Bomber left the ring.

Pastor, who emerged unscathed as the first heavyweight to go the limit with Louis since the latter's knockout last June by Max Schmeling, didn't even lose the plaster patch that he wore over his left eye when the bout started.

Louis, slow, wild and completely baffled by his rival's tactics, showed the
effects of Pastor's punches around the region of the ribs and kidneys, besides a sore nose that bled throughout the last five rounds.

Ringside critics, almost as completely wrong in their speculation over the
outcome as they were in the Louis-Schmeling bout, quickly circulated reports of a "clean up" by Broadway betting men. Plenty of money had been wagered, it was said, against the chances of Pastor going the limit.

Louis, although always seemingly dangerous with either fist, failed to land
anything resembling a knockdown punch. The Bomber's lefts jarred Pastor at intervals, including the fourth, fifth and eighth rounds, but he missed more blows than he connected. Shufflin' Joe looked so slow at times as he tried to match his smaller rival's speedy footwork that he resembled a cigar-store Indian trying to swap punches at long range with a jumping jack.

Pastor blocked many of the punches and ducked or side-stepped others, and scored on his own account with lusty clouts to the head and body.
Taken as the whole the match was more of a novelty in footwork than it was exciting or damaging to either party involved, but Pastor earned credit for outsmarting Louis at nearly every turn and showing sufficient aggressiveness in spots to make the negro look bad. The result, while disappointing to most spectators, looking for some blood and thunder, was nevertheless a blow to the prestige of the Brown Bomber.

Louis, scaling 203 1/4 to Pastor's 179, started slowly and finished the same way. Pastor, plucky as well as resourceful, actually swapped blows with his bigger,heavier-hitting foe without giving ground in the final round and won the crowd's favor by his brisk finish.

>>There you have it SuzieQ. Louis had mundo trouble with quick boxers. Pastor was even smaller than Tunney, and not nearly as good.

 

Agreed. The Dempsey who fought Tunney had quicker feet than Louis ever did. Dempsey mabey won 3 of 20 rounds vs Tunney.

 

..And nearly knocked him out, despite never fighting anybody with Tunney's calibre+style and being old+rusty.

I still think prime Tunney would've matador'd his way past Dempsey, but peak Louis is another thing.

Tunney gets "Conn'd" around 11-13. His durability is untested at heavyweight and his survival skills, while good at lower weights and vs. lesser finishers, will not cut it in the ring with an ATG puncher and finisher in the Brown Bomber. He pulls straight back with his hands down like he did against Dempsey and gets owned, I'd bet the house on it.

 

Exactley. Personally I think the comment about dempsey having quicker feet than louis is irrelevant. Dempsey in 1926-27 was far past his prime, horribly rusty his timing accuracy was off he didnt know how to throw punches in bunches anymore. Louis as a puncher at his peak is at a whole different level than a faded dempsey. Louis long powerful left jab will do plenty of damage, tunney never faced a jab like that before. Louis was a stalker, he didnt need to chase down his oppopent, only stalk his prey and close the gap. no way tunney runs for 15 rounds he will have to engage louis at some point.