Tunney vs Louis

Louis' great right was something Tunney never faced. And I think it would be most interesting to see how Tunney deals with someone who has a great jab himself. On film, neither Dempsey, Gibbons, Heeney, nor Carpentier were in any position to keep Tunney honest with a jab. I don't know if Tunney ever fought someone who could. Louis might actually win a jabbing contest. It is not out of the question.

 

So you think that Muhammed Ali is no chance against Louis?


Tunney is largely an unknown quantity, admittedly, but consider this:

His fighting style is similar to that of Muhammed Ali, but techinically he is better. He has better arsenal of punches, he tends to put more in shoulder into his punches, has a better body attack etc. His speed is very close to that of Ali's. Probably not as quick as prime Ali (although he may have been closer than many think) but probably faster than the 70s Ali that ended on top of the Golden era of heavyweights. No matter which we you look at it, unless he is fighting Ali, he is going to be of comparable speed.

We do not know how hard he hits. Some on here seem to assume because he was a light heavy that he is a powder puff puncher, but everyone he fought says he hit hard. It is interesting that Dempsey said he hit him harder than anyone has before. Obviously he was no Foreman or Lennox Lewis or even Vlad Klitchsko, but, I think it is safe to assume that hit as hard and probably harder than guys like Conn, Farr and others who have challenged and done quite well for world titles. In fact, given that his technique was better than Alis he probably hit as close to as hard as Ali hit. Certainly, there is an argument there and if he is being given benefit of the doubt, you have to assume that his punching power is very close to Alis level.

This leaves his chin as the last remaining question mark. As a heavyweight this hasnt been proved and can never really be measured. This was seen as Alis weakpoint when he had the same number of heavyweight fights as Tunney. Ali was down more often than Tunney and looked much shakier than Tunney who only went down once and who recovered brilliantly from that. In hindsight, Ali proved close to the best chin and recovery of all time. What if Tunney's chin is the same? There is certainly no evidence to suggest otherwise.

At the very least, we do know that Tunneys chin/heart is better than Jack Sharkey's, who is generally seen as having a great heavyweight chin.

If you can make the above assumptions of Tunney's attributes and abilities and there is no evidence to suggest those attributes are not true (despite what anyone says) then there is no reason why Tunney cannot beat Joe Louis or anyother heavyweight. Certainly he has a chance against anyone.

 

Yes, I think he could do it. His boxing skills were better, he had great recovery, and was a very smart, adaptable fighter. I also think he hits hard enough to get Louis' attention, which is important. Psychologically, he wasn't the kind of fighter to be affected by Joe's aura of invincibility. If Gene fights smart (which was the case nearly every time he fought), he'd win a decision 2 times out of 3, if not all of them.

Not to discount Louis, whom I actually rank at #1 at HW- I just think Gene's the wrong stylistic matchup for him. In fact, I'd say Tunney's one of the more underrated fighters in boxing historically- people scoff at hypothetical matchups like this even though he proved he was legit against ATG competition. On one thread, we have a Greb lovefest (perfectly deserved, might I add) where many rank him #1 at MW. Dempsey is a fighter I've rarely seen ranked below 15, and oftentimes top 10 at HW. Even if Jack was faded, Tunney performed at a damn high level against both these fighters every time.

Why is it so taboo to think he has what it takes to decision Louis?

 

As Mentioned Tunney Would Bring A Battle Plan,he Studied More Than Prob. Anyone.and He Had No Love Of The Sport,just Money If He Had The Hunger To Keep Fighting Possibly Would Have Had An Excellent Resemay.i Think Tunney Had The Style To Take At Least 1 If Not 2 Out Of 3 Against Joe As Ment. Even A Faded Dempsey Was Much Faster On His Feet Than Joe.everyone Always Underestimats Tunneys Power Wich Was Very Good

 

Tunney was also the first fighter of note to study films of his foes, so I can see Tunney popping in Carnea Louis, Louis Baer, and take careful eye on Louis's first pro loss for weakness, just as Max did leading up to the bout. Tunney would be a hard task, and I can very well SEE Tunney upsetting Louis, like Holyfiled did Tyson, Tunney is one of the FEW fighters, I can see winning all 3 match series with Louis due to style problems.
I belive Tunney's Chin ranks up with the best, regardless of that 7th round. That was not the ONLY time Dempsey caught Tunney. Dempsey caught Tunney mostly though out the fight, but could not complete with Tunney's jab, speed and combos. Dempsey still landed his body shots and rabbit punchs in the clichs. So if anything, Tunney has a strong backside of his head.

 

I think that if Walcott had fought the Dempsey that Tunney beat up and Tunney fought the Louis that KOd Walcott the outcomes might well have been the same.

I still dont think that Tunney has shown that he is worthy to fight my boy Joe. If he fights George Foreman we will meet the winner.

Promise.

 

How does tunney have a top Heavyweight chin? not only did he not fight men over 200lb, or many of the heavyweight punchers of his era, he also failed to fight the light-Heavyweight punchers of his era (berlenbach, slattery, stribling, siki, etc etc).... People say he recovered on his feet fast from the dempsey knockdown, but he was given 14 seconds of recuperation.......thats at least 5 seconds of extra time which all boxers know is very crucial seconds.

 

Tunney would have a chance to at least win 1 out of 3 but him keeping his hands low could be a problem against someone like Louis. Tunney was a master boxer and arguably one of the best heavyweights ever at it.

Ali would have a good chance against Louis as well, although him keeping his hands low or using the rope-a-dope, could spell doom.

Marciano against Louis is an interesting fight to examine as well. Stylistically this appears to favor him and not favor him at the same time. Louis didn't like to be crowded but he seemed to love when fighters opened up and went after him. Prime for prime it would be an excellent fight.

Louis is beatable as is anyone but hes perhaps the greatest of all time.

 

Joe Louis had a great jab and very quick punishing power!!!

Tunney was a great boxer but Louis could/would eventually
catch him & then - KO!!!

Louis was a great finisher and far more dangerous than an over the
hill Jack Dempsey or Harry Greb!!!


Grebfan9
www.firstroundboxing.com

 

Tunney is usually condemned for making JUST ONE MISTAKE...and this is carrying his hands too low in that 7th round against Dempsey. It's not really fair to Tunney, because probably of all fighters, past or present, Tunney was most studious, and if given the opportunity, would he would have weeded out that flaw of a low guard, and thus improved even more on his style and technique. THERE NEVER HAS BEEN A MORE STUDIOUS AND DISCIPLINED BOXER THAN TUNNEY!! He would have had, as has been posted earlier and correctly by Mendoza, an excellent chance to upset Louis, because he excelled Conn, Walcott, and all the others, like Pastor, who troubled Louis by being far more disciplined as well as having a better chin. Like I said, Tunney, that is if you factor into these hypothetical bouts each man at their very best, would most likely have filtered out of his style any defensive lapses that occured in the 7th round against Dempsey. Tunney, in his studiousness and discipline in following a wise strategy, even surpassed the 1936 version of Max Schmeling, who prepared himself very well for Joe Louis that year for his great upset. Louis, even in his peak years, was susceptible to being outboxed and out-tricked on occasion, and once again, the very disciplined Tunney would have posed a much bigger risk for him than even Conn, and you can bet that Tunney wouldn't have gone "Irish" on Louis and tried to ko him as Conn did.

 

This isn't as easy to pick as alot of people may think. Louis had trouble with movers such as Pastor and Conn and was actually rocked by Conn a few times in thier bout. Conn weighed 169lbs for that fight. A 190lb just as mobile and probably harder hitting Tunney might be quite a bit of trouble for the murderous punching yet somewhat flatfooted Louis. Conn got stupid in his fight with Louis and tried to knockout Joe instead of staying away. I don't see Gene making the same mistake. We're probably talking about the most intelligent man to ever lace 'em up as well as the the best at anylizing an opponent's strengths and weaknesses. And Gene was tough too. He fought a series of brutal bouts with Harry Greb and won the majority of them so that speaks volumes about his ability to take it plus he got up after being pasted by one of the most brutal punchers of all time in Dempsey so Gene was no softie in the ring. With that being said I would still favor Louis slightly in this one but I wouldn't be shocked if Gene won by decision. If he can avoid Louis' right hand over his jab counter and employ lateral movement all night then he can win. If not then I see Joe stopping Gene late in the fight after timing Gene's movement. Either way it's a tough one to call in my opinion.