Twenty seven years ago, Holyfield "upset" Buster Douglas

I'd say he looked it when they met.

 

I agree with you in that, The way it was, he had to fight the guys he got. but I believe the guys he got could have been a lot better or replaced by guys who may have beat them had contenders been facing each other.

Imagine Tubbs getting his shot after facing Bruno, or Thomas getting his shot after beating Berbick in a rematch. Holmes having to beat Damiani before challenging. Spinks taking Tucker rather than Cooney. Biggs beating Witherspoon to get his shot.

If Tyson was getting more resistance from Tubbs, Holmes and Spinks he would have been more prepared for Douglas.

 

A younger Thomas? You mean ONE year younger? Holyfield fought Thomas in Pinklon's next fight after Tyson.

And I see Tyson struggling 'big time' if he fought Buster Douglas (oh, right, he did struggle big time), Riddick Bowe three times, George Foreman, Ray Mercer, Michael Moorer twice and Lennox Lewis TWICE ... and any number of guys Holyfield beat during his title runs.

I also think Tyson may have struggled 'big time' if he fought Hall of Famer Dwight Qawi in July 1986 (like Evander did in their classic 15-rounder) instead of taking on Marvis Frazier that July.

 

You must have watched the highlights, not the entire fight if you think holyfield fought foreman the same way he fought bowe

 

I don't think it really mattered if they had to win tuneups first.

I never had a problem with anyone Tyson fought during his reign. Unlike today, the ratings of the WBC, WBA and IBF (the WBO didn't exist yet) were pretty consistent regarding the guys they rated. They may have been in different positions, but the names themselves were consistent. And Tyson fought nearly everyone.

I pulled out one old issue of KO.

In the WBA's March 1987 ratings, the champ was Bonecrusher, followed by 1. Biggs 2. Tucker 3. Thomas 4. Cooney 5. Witherspoon 6. Tubbs 7. Berbick 8. Bruno 9. Douglas 10. Coetzer

In the WBC's April 1987 ratings, the champ was Tyson, followed by 1. Thomas 2. Berbick 3. Tucker 4. Biggs 5. M. Spinks 6. Ribalta 7. Bruno 8. B.C. Smith 9. Witherspoon 10. Cooney

In the IBF's April 1987 rating, the champ was vacant, followed by 1. Tucker 2. Douglas 3. Williams 4. Broad 5. Biggs 6. Tubbs 7. Spinks 8. Smith 9. Berbick 10. Witherspoon

Out of the only three ratings bodies at the time, the only guys from that period Tyson didn't fight was Witherspoon and Cooney. And after Spinks beat Cooney in 1987, Cooney disappeared again.

And I think the Witherspoon snub had more to do with the Jacobs and Cayton not liking Dennis Rappaport (who was guiding Spoon at the time) and not wanting to co-promote an event with him than anything else.

Tyson pretty much cleaned out the heavyweight division during his initial run. More so than just about any heavyweight ever has.

Holmes avoided a number of guys during his reign. Louis avoided most black contenders. Marciano fought just the names at the top of the ratings.

But Tyson beat three champs for their belts and practically cleaned out three top 10s.

 

Holmes was more qualified to fight Tyson than Ali was Holmes.

Biggs beat Snipes, Bey, and Simms.

Bonecrusher and Tucker held titles and were coming off wins over titlists or contenders.

Spinks was lineal.

Pink had one close loss and was about two years removed from being a pfp titlist.

Williams, Bruno, and Tubbs fought average opposition leading up to Tyson but were better than various no hopers whom Holmes defended agains.

 

Keep in mind Williams and Bruno were both #1 contenders/mandatories.

You have to really look hard for someone for Tyson to fight who he didn't meet.

Of course, there's Witherspoon. James Broad was rated in 1987, but he was a Tyson sparring partner and punchy already. Cooney would appear and disappear. That was kind of it. There was talk of him fighting Adilson Rodriques in 1988, but then Tyson took the rest of the year off after fighting Spinks.

Holyfield began his climb up the heavyweight ladder in the late 80s, and Tyson had agreed to fight him, too, in 1990.

 

My quibble is not that Tyson ducked anybody. He did not. Tyson did clean up. I just don't think his challengers were active enough to do themselves justice and if they were anywhere near as good as we thought they were.

Think about it. The last man Larry beat was years earlier. Williams. Tubbs and Thomas had not beat rated fighters since around he time Tyson turned pro. Bruno never fought a rated guy that he could beat since Gerrie Coetzee. This was Years earlier and Frank was coming off some layoff. Spinks was linear but Cooney was a part timer, I don't know why he was rated. Tamgstad? Come on, Spinks needed better prep for Tyson. Biggs? I don't think Snipes or Bey had a rating anymore. So nobody was beating anyone current apart from Bonecrusher, Tucker, Williams and Douglas.

We don't know how much better those guys might have been with better company.

 

Smith beat Witherspoon, Tucker beat Douglas, Biggs beat Bey, Douglas beat McCall ...

Catch my drift?

 

Well I agree. I already said Berbick, Tucker, Smith, Williams and Douglas were the most live challengers. We did not know it at the time, but they were the only guys ready to fight who had good recent wins.

Spinks, Holmes, Bruno, Tubbs, Thomas and Biggs did not.

 

When you are belting challengers as quick as Tyson was they aren't all going to have top tier wins just before they fight him. Crikey. This is one of the strangest angles to try and discredit someone i've seen. At least he was fighting decent names with not much filler unlike almost every other champ.

He went thru a stale division like a breath of fresh air.

 

Thomas had the life beaten out of him by Tyson and followed it with a heroin bender. He was a done deal after that.

Moorer and Qawi would be obliterated by Tyson. Any other opinion would be delusional.

 

I'm not discrediting Tyson at all. He did indeed go through a stale division like a breath of fresh air. My only quibble is about 6 of them went years without beating good fighters.