Twenty seven years ago, Holyfield "upset" Buster Douglas

Berbick was a reigning champ. Bonecrusher was a reigning champ. Tucker was a reigning champ. Bruno was the #1 contender. Williams was the #1 contender. Thomas was the #1 contender. Biggs was the #1 contender. Then there was Larry Holmes and Tony Tubbs. Both former champs.

If you want to complain that Holmes and Tubbs needed tuneups, fine.

Pinklon Thomas fought on the undercard of Tyson-Bonecrusher two months before. (Thomas had three fights in the year after losing to Berbick.) AND Thomas was the WBC heavyweight champion a year before. He was active and very much a top heavyweight.

I don't know how a HARD fight would've made Thomas BETTER at that point in his career. Do you really believe Pinklon Thomas would've performed better against Tyson if he'd gotten into a war with another top contender just before fighting Tyson?

Biggs was the number one contender and he DID have a tough fight before fighting Tyson (against Bey). Did that brawl with Bey and Biggs needing a come-from-behind KO help Biggs? NO. No. No.

Bruno fell into the trap of becoming the number one contender in 1987, and then having to wait while Tyson fought Holmes, Tubbs and Spinks. Bruno was supposed to fight Tyson in the fall of 1988, then Tyson started having personal problems and took off some time.

But no matter how many tuneups Bruno had, he was never going to beat Mike Tyson. He didn't have the chin. The speed. Anything.

Same with Carl Williams. His chin was never going to survive a fight with Tyson. He was flattened by Jesse Ferguson after fighting Holmes and he got stopped by Weaver. He wasn't fighting anyone with a pulse after winning an eliminator against Berbick.

I can understand your point. It would be nice if the top contenders fought their way to the top and were active against great fighters right up until the moment they challenged for the title. But none of those guys would've been better if they'd gotten in wars or flattened leading up to a Tyson fight. They were fragile enough as it was.

And anyone who would've knocked them off wasn't beating Tyson at that point, either, because Tyson had already beaten nearly all the other ranked contenders.

Had David Bey stopped Biggs on cuts, would David Bey have knocked off Tyson at his best? NO. No.

Tyson lost to Buster Douglas because Douglas beat him up. And even though Douglas beat him up, Tyson still nearly scored an eighth round KO. None of those other guys beat Tyson up. And a tough fight right before they fought Tyson wasn't going to do them any good.

Tyson was the guy who was fighting all the tough opponents. If anything. that should've benefited TYSON's opponents because they weren't facing all the top guys Tyson was having to knock off in a row with little time to rest in between.

 

So, again, by saying a YOUNGER Thomas, you meant the Thomas from one year earlier. Got it. (Yeah, I'm sure the fight would've been much different if he'd fought the 1987 Thomas instead of the 1988 Thomas in his very next outing.)

Also, the Qawi in 1986 who went 15 rounds with Holyfield a week or two before Tyson fought Marvis Frazier would've certainly given Tyson trouble. You're high if you don't think that. You are hyping Marvis like he would've won the title if he didn't fight Holmes, and you scoff at Qawi, for God's sake?

What's delusional is thinking Trevor Berbick or Bonecrusher or freaking Carl Williams give Holyfield a rough time, like you claimed.

 

That's the point I was making. I don't think a division benefits from a lot of its top ten not meeting other contenders.

I think getting world class opposition would have kept them sharper. Kept them focused. It could have inspired better performance from some of them Had they won final elimination bouts.

Why would they get flattened? It might have been the motivation that era needed? It is great fights that makes great fighters. What great fights were some of those guys winning?

Isn't there a saying that the cream rises to the top? Well Nobody was rising.

it was just guys taking their turn to meet Tyson.

I'm not saying those guys could hope to win but eliminations could make resulting Tyson wins less hollow than I think they might be without them.

I have been hard on Tony Tubbs in the past. But what really was his incentive to get in shape going into a fight with Tyson? Since losing to Witherspoon he had not had a live opponent. How far was he going to go had he been in shape? Tyson was a wrecking ball coming off top wins.

 

You're focusing too much on Tubbs. He and Holmes were optional defenses. They weren't waiting around to fight Tyson. They were offered the title fights and accepted them.

And the incentive to beat Tyson was the same incentive there is for any contender to beat any dominating, money-generating heavyweight champion. They even offered Tubbs more money if he came in under a certain weight, and he didn't. I don't how a tuneup would've helped him.

You could argue Tubbs and Holmes were the ONLY two guys who fought Tyson at that time (out of 11 title fights) who weren't in the best condition they could've been in. Even Douglas was in the best condition of his life.

 

Of course they were. Berbick had just beaten Thomas. Smith had just beaten Witherspoon in one round. Tucker had just beaten Douglas. Biggs was on the brink of defeat and KOed Bey. Thomas was fighting as often as Tyson since losing to Berbick. He went 10 rounds two months before his title bout. Bruno and Williams waited for shots after getting the #1 spot. But they were in the prime of their lives and came in in great shape. Going 10 rounds with Tubbs three months before fighting Tyson wasn't going to change the outcomes of their fights with Tyson.

Tyson was just better than all of them.

 

yes I remember Biggs v Bey but Bey was kind of a loser at that point. Was Bey rated? Bruno preserved his high rating with a win over joe bugner.. it’s not that ideal is it?

I have no problem with Berbick, Smith, Douglas and Tucker. They were winning leading fights.

Thomas was not beating good guys anymore. His last win of note was mike weaver. That was going back some. Neither was Tubbs. Neither was Frank. Good names all of them though.

Spinks was linear champ. But the last curent guy he met was Holmes..who by then was not curent.

Tyson took care of business. I don’t blame him. Can we say all of them were that hot? I don’t think so. Tyson was a great champion, I just think there was a lot going his way in regards to career timing.

 

Have you seen both fights? Thomas hadn't fought since Tyson and it was more than one year. Pink came to fight against Tyson but looked horrendous, physically, against Holyfield.

Tyson didn't struggle like Holyfield did because he had better defense and one punch power. Qawi would've been obliterated against Mike.

So much wrong with your post. But good try though.

 

That post by Dubblechin makes me believe he IS delusional. Tyson struggling with Qawi and Moorer? I could see Bowe and possibly Foreman giving Tyson problems, and that's being nice to Foreman. Douglas ran from the rematch and Mercer ran hot and cold. Ray would've been up for Mike but gets beaten up over the course ofthe fight if it happens to go the distance.

Holyfield is an ATG fighter but he struggled A LOT against inferior opponents. He was the sole reason why a Holmes-Foreman bout came thisclose to happening.

 

This is true but it made holyfeild exciting. Maybe his opponents fancied their chances more with Evander?

Holyfeild was great. He really experimented to get the most out of his body too.

 

Chok, i before e, except after c......Holyfield.

 

You saved me 20 minutes, cheers.