Two answers please gents on WILFREDO GOMEZ vs RUBEN OLIVARES

At their best, they were on a similar level IMO. Olivares struggled with inconsistency during portions of his career due to his lifestyle outside of the ring, which lead to mediocre performances and the occasional upset loss (to very good fighters in Herrera and Castillo, mind you). At his best though, he was arguably the most impressive of any of the great Mexican champs. His destruction of Lionel Rose is one of the best performances I've ever seen.

Gomez didn't start to struggle with inconsistency until the very latter end of his 122 reign and in his days at higher weights. During his early 122 days, as most have seen, he was one of the most beautiful boxers to watch. He had it all from a technical standpoint, along with his already impressive physical attributes.

I think Olivares on his A game is one of the few I'd give a chance at beating a 122 pound Gomez.

As to who I rank higher, typically Olivares. His greater resume and success at the higher weights being the main reason.

 

Too close to call, I dont think your argument will ever be settled because this is basically a pick em.

I have seen a bit of both men but nowhere near enough to give a definite answer other than the one about it being very close.

Ps. Gomez might edge the ability part, thats might, not sure.

 

Gomez on both accounts, IMO.

 

Yeas i agree with Sweet Pea, the greater resume being a deciding factor, just. One man was less consistent at his best weight, but that was a very good era and he still emerged as the best of it. The other man was dominant in a decent era, but for me his very best wins are ones against guys who were better at lower weights, or certainly greater. In name though, i consider the win over Pintor a very good win even at 122, though the fight itself was crazy. I also agree on the performance against Rose being immense, Rose was a great boxer, who had a punishing left hand if guys got close, but Olivares just got close, and then closer, and closer again, smashing him with them signature relentless hooks, he is a man posessed in that one, but keeps to his discipline all the while, vintage Olivares.

 

I'll answer your second question 1st as i'll find it much easier. I rate olivares higher, he has a slightly better resume to my mind and also jumped up weights slightly easier.

To the other question ive got to be honest and say i am just not sure of the answer of who was the better fighter at there best. I can see quite a lot of similarity between the 2, both are very complete,they can box and move or come forward and attack, both where big punchers, good movement etc. Both also had quite a short period of time when they where at there absolute best.

I really can't seperate who was better, 2 of the most exceptional fighters ever. As i said in the wilfredo gomez thread yesterday a fantasy fight between them at 122 with gomez at his best v the olivares who had just beat rose moving up 4lb is one of if not my favourite fantasy fight.

 

Good post stevebhoy, for the first question i'll say this-

when you first start thinking about boxing when you're a kid, (well this is me anyway), you get a vision of the perfect fighting style. It's like, you keep pressure on your opponent, but at arms length, hitting him but he can't hit you, then when he tries to come forward at you, you side step and counter him with hard short shots, then he's back on the backfoot, you effectively handcuff the guy. That's Wlifredo Gomez for me, it's just spot on how he fights.

But Olivares is probably the epitome of aggression in a technical sense, the way he plants his feet to land the most devastating hooks in rapid succession, along with uppercuts and overhands is the finest. They land perfectly on the button with knuckles turned at the optimal moment, and he has head movement and a change in height also for a good defence on offense, or certainly competent.

You make the decision, im done.

 

Olivares for career. Rose, Castillo, Chacon x2, Ramirez, Medel, Rudkin, Efren Torres, Burrini, Seeley, Pimintel..Sensational record, much deeper if you ask me.

About on par for ability...Gomez impresses me a little more at his best weight.

Agree with Pea, his win over Rose was one of the best performances I have seen. Perhaps the greatest win of any Mexican fighter and thats saying something.

 

1. Wilfredo Gomez -We know both could hit, but I think Gomez was deadlier. Although Olivares could switch styles and box on occasion (the 3rd Castillo fight) I think Gomez, with his puppetmasterlike title winning bout with Juan LaPorte was very impressive, as was his very disputed title winning 15 rounder against Rocky Lockridge. Plus, Gomez frequently outboxed opponents and showed considerable ring cunning, as in his bout with Zarate before snuffing the life out of them.
2. I believe it's very close, but I think that in his prime, Gomez showed an even greater superority over his opponents than did even Olivares over his, and the matter of Gomez being the more dominant champion of the two when he was king of the 122 division. A tough one to call, as I was an admirer of Olivares too, but Gomez was unreal, and more consistant than Olivares plus the way he destroyed Zarate in his signature bout impresses me most. I vote for Gomez.

 

I'll add point 3.
A meeting between the two at 122. Gomez ko 3 Olivares. Again, Gomez was Superman at this weight. I think he would have been too much the complete package for Ruben as he was for Zarate, for you see, Gomez' style, at his peak, at 122, during the timeline of 1976-79, was a lethal cocktail of crippling power, and shifty animal cunning, a total package. His underrated boxing skills set up his power, and he wasn't as vulnerable, Sal Sanchez aside, chinwise as Olivares was. Speaking of Sanchez, I believe, though he might not have beaten Sal, but he could have definitely done better, and may have avoided a ko loss, if he had not abandoned the boxing skills and fundamentals that he displayed up to the Zarate bout. I think after the Zarate ko, Gomez fell prey to being overly intoxicated by his own power, and didn't display the cunning, and the angles & smarts vs Sanchez that he did against Zarate and so many others. I'm not implying, of course, that Gomez was a Willie Pep or anything, but he had subtle and effective boxing skills that served a subordinate role in being the vehicle to him delivering on that great power of his...after Zarate, he depended more and more on just the power, as so many great hitters have done, to their detriment.

 

This thread is not even one complete page long, but it has some of the very best posts i have seen.

 

Gomez, just, How long the fight would last??? I would'nt bet on a round or result 2 be honest.

 

1.Who was the better fighter in terms of ability?

From what i have seen its Ruben Olivares. The guy was fericous and had amazing power. The best bantam i have set my eyes on. Olivares's destruction of Rose is an amazing win.

He had good speed which he used to dodge punches as he came forward then he would land fast combos on his opponents and these shots hurt. He also banged the body brilliantly and moved excellantly.

Gomez was the smoothest fight i have seen and he had power but i just think Olivares is so relentless and has the better physical gifts it makes him better

2.Who do you rank higher in terms of all-time pound-for-pound greatness?

not sure never really gone over there records