Two question on FUNDAMENTALS, with reference to ROY JONES JR

I would say Jones footwork was one of his biggest attributes. The speed he had to move in and out of punching position both offensively and defensively was mind boggling. THats why they signed him up for the Matrix sequel.

 

Actually in his prime Jones had an excellent jab.
See more of him around 1994-96. After that he stopped using it for offense, using it as range finder (for power punches) and feinting tool from then on.

 

Most People is really getting underrated these days.


It comes down to the classic argument. Do you need textbook fundamentals to be effective, and/or technically sound.

It is a bit like Carlos Monzon. He was not 'textbook' sound, in the way he did not do stuff 'by the book' so to speak but he was technically effective in the way stylistically he had very little weaknesses and covered most, if not all, areas.

Jones is very similar in this way, I am not saying Jones and Monzon are stylistically similar. They both used their physical advantages to their absoloute maxima, and covered all areas technically to cope with this.

 

I feel like he understands good technique to a pretty solid extent. His fight commentary is pretty insightful and usually right on the money, far as I can see.

 

I'm not doubting him as an analyst swarmer.

 

Yep, i agree, this is what i've said all along, he's great in terms of effectiveness, one of the greats.

 

His lack of fundamentals is overstated. Sure, he wasn't a complete technician, but that is some way from having no fundamentals.

Many fighters considered to be great technicians didn't use the text book guard - Robinson, Moore, Burley, SRL and Walcott among them. It gets to be a bit black or white here who is considered "technician" or "savant".

 

I rewatched Pazienza-Jones and he went the whole 4th round without being hit. He even used his jab alot throughout the fight. The guy had abilities and wasn't put in the category as "textbook" but Roy was a bit technical in his day. He used his feet & fast reflexes as his defense.

 

I want to stress that my comments (at all times) on great technicians don't directly correlate with my comments on fundamentals. Just so you all know. Like El Bujia said the other day, Napoles wasn't someone who overly employed the basics/fundamentals, but he was a great technician.

My comments on Jones as a technician were not comments on his fundamentals.

 

A lot of what Jones did was fighting in position, meaning he would put himself in positions where he could land shots and not get hit in return. It really was a testament to his awesome speed and footwork. A lot of it was countering, but it was often countering and coming forward and then stepping off to the side where he was out of his opponents range. Jones didnt need a jab, he hurt his opponent with fast lead shots.

To say Jones wasnt fundamentally sound because he was getting hit more as he aged is not really true either. All fighters at some point slow down and react differently to punches. If Jones snapped his jab and boxed straight up, he still would have been nailed by big shots at those points late in his career, because he lost his reaction timing.
I remember watching Terry Norris get blasted out by Keith Mullings. Norris was as "fundamentally sound" as they came, but his legs and reaction timing were so far gone. He couldnt even compete with the most limited of guys anymore.
The same thing basically happened with Jones. He could no longer avoid the shots that would have knocked him out or hurt him at any stage of his career, and the bigger the opponent, the less equipped they needed to be to hurt him and get him out of there, thats why he was still competitive against capable 68'ers but easily hurt and run over by a limited cruiser.

 

Love this post and this part stood out to me. Why did Norris deteriorate so rapidly? I'm a fan of his and always wondered that. Yes he had some setbacks(DQ's and being ko'd by Simon Brown) but at his best he was a force. I love watching tip top Norris.

 

Tyson had a very good jab and could set up harder punches with it. What hurt him was that he didn't use it enough past his prime.

 

Because that's what happens to boxers, they almost grow old overnight. The ones that rely on speed get affected the most. Some guys can adapt their styles, like Evander Holyfield or Bernard Hopkins for example, but the guys that never had great chins, (and I always thought Jones with his skinny legs and lower body, never had a grade A chin), all wind up getting pushed out of the sport fairly quickly.

 

You are right and I was going to add that Tyson did have a good jab when he used it, but overall, even in his prime, he didnt use it to setup most of his punches in the same way most fighters did. He often used the lefthook to start his combinations, another guy who could rely on his speed to land affective power shots.