Two Questions About Juan Manuel Marquez

Probably not. I think a lot of the stem is taken out of the victory given the Jose Santa Cruz fight, which most people think Casa lost. But he's a great fighter, though I'm biased, I think he's a nightmare for anyone to fight.

Yes he may be past his best now, but I don't think he's shot by any means, I still think he's one of the top 135's around because of what he combines. Defensive craft, that southpaw stance, a solid chin, tons of experience - admittedly the odd dirty trick now and again - good handspeed and he can bang when he needs to.

I think it's a very, very good win - especially considering it was his first since stepping up. Casamayor rightly or wrongly was still the lineal champion aswell, and what he combines still makes him a difficult opponent for anyone. Not to mention JMM being the first to stop him.

He's certainly up there. I don't think his chin is shaky or anything, but I don't think it's 'excellent' as some people have proclaimed. I think it's very solid, but he's prone to KD's occasionally and the first Pac fight was a prime example of it.

It was also a prime example of those recouperative abilities you talk about. To come back from 3 first round knockdown's isn't easy against any fighter, let alone a guy like Manny Pacquiao, now at the top of the P4P rankings and still high at the time of the first JMM fight.

I thought he showed real heart and composure to recover from that first round and come back to in my opinion win the rest of the fight. Now taking that 10-6 into account, I'm not going to say JMM definately won the fight, perhaps he lost, perhaps the draw was fair - which I personally think it was. But taking out that immediate 4 point deficit, I think he would of been ahead when judging the next 11 rounds. It was a fantastic recovery by a great fighter.

 

1-No but I think that's because Casa is so past it. Granted he cranked it up during the JMM fight but Casamayor showed signs of decline against Santa Cruz and full on signs of decay when he allowed Katsidis to beat him to the body. He showed a tough performance against JMM but that wasn't prime Casamayor.

Then again I think Marquez would dust off Casa in his prime as well so that's neither here nor there.

And #2? Absolutely. I think only Izzy Vasquez is the first guy off the top of my head who could rival him. Pavlik has good recouperative skills as well but to me, JMM is head of the class.

 

Absoultley not. The Casa win was a hell of a win. Far better then if he beat David Diaz. Casita is still a tough fight for anyone at 135-140 imo. And JMM recoupe skills are immpecable! most 130 pounders would have never gotten up from the knock down in the second fight. he got clipped with a helluva punch. JMM is a modern day great.

 

1. yes

2. one of the best

i think because of the match with floyd ppl have started underratin him. Everyone is sure there's no way he can beat Floyd and ppl hav started 2 tlk **** bout him

 

sta. cruz should get more credit for beating casamayor, i had casa ahead by a point or 2 prior to that KO. That fight alone tells me a prime casa would have schooled him, the diaz was a wonderful win it tops pac's performance vs. oscar for me and the quality of win.

and #2, he is probably..the man has a big heart and never say die attitude. If it was another fighter out there who had been KD 3x by pac on the 1st round, that fighter would have probably quit

 

what is UP with that shirt?

 

1. Two minds about it...Casa put on a pretty solid effort but I was never that high on him overall to tell you the truth..And he was mummified version of his best..To me he seemed more like a nuisance rather then a danger at that stage.

I personally think that had a lot to do with JMM having stylistic issues with fighters who dont present him with consistent countering opportunities. A lot of the reason why I think crafty and skilled movers of the past could have really trouble him..Even second tier guys like Legra and Famechon..most certainly guys like Pedroza and Mayweather.

But I am still impressed he was the first guy to stop him...and so abruptly aswell. It wasnt like a beatdown or he wore him out..One minute the fight was very competitive the next Casa was out. Joel's mix of chin, savvy (ie his dirty ****) and defensive schooling always made him a near certainty of making the rounds no matter the opponent.

2. No..I think Tito probably had that..He found himself in situations it was called upon more times throughout his career.
Marquez is impressive in this regard however.

 

I like Marquez, he is a good lightweight champion, but he is just too small for Mayweather. I have to give Mayweather the edge, but Marquez is a live underdog.

 

Exellent question on what accolades to give JMM for his Casamayor victory.........

......the way I looked at it, my thinking going into that fight is that Casamayor was showing deep signs of decline, probably not shot, but all the decline signs were there.....

Casa is just like the most old great fighters, fading away, but still fully capable to rise to the occasion.....

If you look at great fighters that are aging, alot of them in the latter part of their career fight to the level of their opposition.....
I remember greats like Roberto Duran, Azumah Nelson and Evander Holyfield doing just that.....

.....there were fights where Duran had looked god awful going into his Davey Moore and Iran Barkley fights.
Nelson took opponents he was facing for the first time lightly and for granted, good fighters like Jesse Leija and Gabe Ruelas looked like upcoming greats when they first fought Nelson to extremely close and controversial fights, then Nelson would pick them apart and look prime when he rematched them....

Holyfield was somewhat the same way....always in great shape, but not up to peak physical or mental condition when he fought guys like Bobby Czyz, right before the first Tyson fight, that most boxing experts deemed Holyfield a hasbeen.......

Those examples are how I view Casamayor in a nutshell.
Not the same fighter he was before, but when respecting his opposition, fully capable of preparing himself properly and rising to the occasion to compete.



Since its alot of the Pac fans that dont view the Casamayor fight for JMM as a legit win againt a caliber opponent......let me equate this fight and put it on parralel to one of Manny Pacquiao'a exellent wins.....


......Pacquiao's exellent performance against a game, but fading Erik Morales in their rematch.....
Morales had looked like complete crap against Raheem the fight before the Pacquiao rematch.....but make not mistake, even on fading, Morales beats most but the very elite at 130 lbs on the night he lost to Pacquiao for the first time.

I think that Casamayor can be parralleled with that Morales.......not at the top of their respective games, but still damn good enough to still compete at a high level.


The key with Casamayor is does he respect the opponent in front of him????
If he does, he's going to be in peak condition and stick to his game plan giving us a great fight......

.....if he does'nt, he's going to stink up the joint whether he wins or loses, just like he did against Santa Cruz.

 

Marquez is one real warrior. He's fkn exited to watch. And i think he didnt get all the credit he deserve.