Two-Ton Tony Galento vs Eric "Butterbean" Esch

I really think if Galento had hair he would be viewed better.
Andy Ruiz has the punching form of a noob and still beat a future modern hall of famer

 

You know I really respect your opinion Pat we’ve both discussed plenty and you’ve been kind enough to share your knowledge with me many times… but I disagree with you here about your comment on Eric Esch’s opponents being capable of beating Two Ton Tony. Wouldn’t you say that presentation is second to result? Galento worked like a fighter such as Sung Kil Moon did and you’ve said before that it’s easier analyse than share the ring with them, if nothing else he would’ve had the fight sense, timing and ability to manage distance of a fighter who has had over 100 professional fights, it isn’t possible (in my nothing opinion) he had that many fights against who he did in an era where he was contending (not just doing 4 rounder side shows) without having picked up some tricks and having known how to fight.
I believe we’ve both agreed on a point before that if two guys were left to it that they could figure out how to fight with enough experience sparring, but they’d be picked apart by someone well schooled because of all the little things, Louis demonstrated this when he outclassed TG but his raw bones sort of savagery can work and it did against contenders… he was a strong, durable, mauling sort of fighter who could fight inside readably well he had a cement head and huge power in his left hook. Who do you think Eric Esch fought (beat?) who could defeat Tony?

 

Butterbean annihilates Jake Paul.

What more needs to be asked of the man?

His fantasy resume has fulfilled its purpose.

 

I would just say Swag that due to a long career and many fights, it appears that Louis often treated fights like a 9-5 job.

Not too much, not too little, just enough to get the job done. That fine line type of approach did invite some hiccups here and there however.

Also, whatever their substantive quality, challengers can and often have lifted themselves for the occasion when the title is up for grabs - as Lennox Lewis said, its much easier to win a title than hold onto it -

I think part of the rationale behind Lewis’ statement is that it is difficult to keep being your best in the face of challengers who most likely will pitch their best at you - even if, from their perspective, pitching their best is reserved for the one fight (title fight) only.

Hell of thing to 1) maintain your own high level and 2) keep repelling such challenges over a long period of time.

As to Joe’s first time, 9-5 job approach, that’s why Louis’ rematches could be revealing in more ways than one.

Not just to observe Joe making me necessary adjustments (if needed) for a better, more efficiently achieved outcome but also to see a simply more seriously applied Louis - motivated by the seeking of redemption of sorts.

A fight that Louis didn’t approach like a 9-5 job was the match against Max Baer. Joe, a young up and comer, happy to splurge all his talents on Max.

So, at the very least, opponents of the quality of Tyson, Lewis etc. would solicit the very best version of Louis first time around I would think.

If they did somehow take advantage of any flaws, it would also be interesting to see if Louis (Blackburn) couldn’t correct same by the time of the rematch.

Suffice to say, Joe didn’t muck around in the Buddy Baer rematch - a terrific performance that saw Joe literally screw drive Buddy into the deck.

As to the KD in the first match, I don’t think Joe was badly effected. Certainly he got back into the ring quick enough, ready willing and able.

Just all imo of course.

 

I understand your point, you believe that TG had "intangibles" that allowed him to compete with fighters of his era although he didn't look good on video? Intangibles are important, TG could have been exceptionally tough or strong or whatever. Some people are, but I can't get past that video of him sparring.

I don't consider Butterbean to be anything more than a gimmick fighter, I saw his fight with Mitch Rose (1-7-1) and he was out classed in that one by Rose (I bet after that fight his management stopped just looking at opponent's records and started doing some research on amateur careers). When I compare BB and TG on video, BB looks to have better technique/fundamentals and BB would also have a size advantage over a face first opponent who likes to grapple. If TG fought BB it might be the first time he was out weighed by an opponent. He might find grappling and pushing BB is not like pushing and grappling with smaller people to say nothing of lunging in, face first and getting hit by a guy who weighs over 300 pounds?

Of course TG fought some of the best of his era and had his memorable moment when he knocked down Joe Louis. BB didn't fight any prime, top fighters of his era. If he had, I don't think he would have done well, but he might have gotten a knockdown or two somewhere before the better fighters knocked him out? Off of resume', TG would be considered the better fighter, but BB looks better on video. One point in TG's favor, he has a knockout over Classy Freddie Blassie, one of the funniest guys on WWF before it was WWE.

 

Ruiz has excellent form though?

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Of course, he couldn't possibly live up to this.

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Again, Galento is not seriously fighting in there.
Ruiz punching form in actual fights is poor

 

People mistake Galento's crude technique for total incapability. Galento made up for his absence of technique with his dirty style of fighting, but this wasn't the only thing he could do. Galento could punch hard and punch well, but even more importantly could absorb punches. I would rate Galento's chin as being stone hard, for it wasn't possible for anyone - including Joe Louis - to walk away with a win flooring Tony with a single punch or two. Most boxers in history could not have endured what Galento did, and there have been several reputed journalists who have mentioned this attribute of Tony. Of his twenty-six defeats, only six came by means of stoppage. Three of these were opponents of highest caliber.

People say Butterbean's many of Butterbean's opponents could beat Galento, I would like to know which ones? Many of Butterbean's opponents shouldn't have been anywhere near the ring. They did not offer any resistance, possessed no technique and I am not even sure if they trained. Half a dozen of his opponents had never fought before (and only two of Galento's opponents were debutants). The only vanquished opponent of Butterbean with an acceptable record was Peter McNeeley. Butterbean lost to a geriatric version of Larry Holmes in 2002. Not only was Holmes fifty-two years old, but he had not had one fight in five years where his opponent wasn't roughly of the same age as him. This is very important because, as you age into your fifties, every passing year makes a big difference.

 

Ruiz had great quicks, really fluid combos and was defensively responsible. Apples and oranges there. Fat apples and oranges.

 

Should be easy enough for you to show me this amazing technique he has from any footage where he's "seriously fighting" in that case

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All I can say to that, is that I wish we had footage of the Nova fight, because it sounds like he really found Nova's number from the ringside reports.

 

The only number he found was the record for how many blatant fouls one can get away with in a bout. Absolutely disgraceful.

 

I wonder if in 100 years people will glamorize Tyson as having some kind of demented success in the second Holyfield fight.

Still struggling to wrap my mind around absolutely the bizarre fascination with contorting basic facts into pretzels, making an average, overweight heavyweight into something.... else. The reality is that he was no different from a plethora of dime a dozen heavyweights who could punch a little. Sedreck Fields anyone?

I'd pay good money to see Galento thrown into a time machine and pitted against a modern heavyweight no one ever fanboys over. Watching the affirming beat-down would be worth the investment.

Throw this mythical Galento in there with a Jameel McCline or Derrick Jefferson and watch the one sided carnage.

 

That is what I thought for many years, but when you look into the ringside reports, a different picture starts to emerge.