Tyson and Cus, Ali and Dundee

Archie Moore, Sandy Saddler, and George Foreman will never not be linked for me for various reasons (knockout kings, trained together, stylistic inheritance.) Futch and Frazier. Pacman and Roach (finally reunited.) Ward-Gatti. Emmanuel and Lewis.

EDIT: Emmanuel and Hearns more like it. Father and son.

 

Ray Arcel and Joe Louis opponents.

Ray was apparently the trainer of choice for a lot of Joe’s failed challengers. In fact, he cornered 14 fighters who faced the Brown Bomber (unsuccessfully).

Ray told the story that after like the fourth time, when he came out to ring center for instructions Joe looked at him and smiled and said, ‘You here again?’ and everyone laughed.

 

Joe Louis and Jack Blackburn
Jack Dempsey and Jack Kearns
Ali & Frazier
Vitali & Wladimir Klitschko

 

Arturo Gatti & Micky Ward
Jack Britton & Ted Lewis

 

Hearns and Steward..... That's a gimme guys.

 

Lou Duva and George Benton

 

Aaron Pryor, Panama Lewis & The Black Bottle

 

Mike Tyson hired him after he had been banned following the Billy Collins incident, when Panama pulled the padding out of Luis Resto’s gloves.

He couldn’t get a corner license iirc so he just worked in the gym on Tyson’s team, but what kind of person hires a complete scumbag like that after it’s 100% known that he’s a scumbag?

 

I thought Foreman was trained by D1ck Sadler? I did not know Sandy was on his team.

 

Dick Sadler was George’s “first career” trainer (for most of it) and, I think, manager.

George said he met Sandy Saddler before his first fight in NYC and Sandy helped in the gym and arranged sparring partners and such, then seconded Dick in the corner, and from then on whenever he fought in Madison Square Garden he always made sure Sandy was part of the corner team.

I think it’s cool AF that George got to be around the (imo) greatest featherweight of all time and that when he had his “second” career (aka Old George) that he enlisted Archie Moore — who better to understand and relate to how to adjust to fighting as an ‘old man’ than the Ol’ Mongoose?

 

That’s interesting I had no idea, I only think Moore should’ve handled his career honestly both Ali and Foreman suffered from there hubris and didn’t listen to Moore - Foreman had a 2nd try at it and found the perfect guy for the job but he had toomany whisperers in the 70s and was rushed / incomplete.

 

I can’t really make a judgment there. Dick Sadler was good. He taught Foreman a lot and refined a very, very raw fighter more than most give credit.

George stuck with him through the Ali fight and people make a big deal about Foreman firing him after that loss, but a lot of fighters of more recent vintage change trainers more often than I change socks — Bernard Hopkins, Oscar de la Hoya, etc. It happens. Sometimes fighters, in their minds, need someone to blame and the trainer often gets the sack.

Dundee was the perfect choice for Ali. No one could have guided him better and I doubt anyone could have gotten through to him better given Muhammad’s ego and bravado. He let Ali be Ali, which I think was essential to his greatness. And as much as I respect Archie Moore, ol’ Arch didn’t have the kind of corner and training experience that Dundee did — would Archie have been able to react in the moment and get Ali through the rough patch in the first Henry Cooper fight (however long it took to change the glove, it was a clever move to make an issue of it while his guy was shaking off cobwebs) or when whatever it was got in his eyes in the first Liston fight when Ali wanted to quit? I doubt it.

Archie was perfect for Old George. Not sure he would have been for brash, angry young George.

But who knows?

 

If George wasn’t so arrogant and Ali too they’d have both had an easier time in the 70s IMO… Dundee was a basically a manager / motivator he wasn’t a trainer they could have kept Dundee and had Moore too just like Foreman in the 80s lol that’d have been a helluva team and who knows how good Ali could’ve been if he’d expanded beyond seemingly the last 3 years with Chuck Bodak (he obviously got better but that was on his own famously, sparring and experience with the odd bells and whistles from guys like Harry Wiley and believe it or not Tae Kwon Do guys lol) I think Sadler /Sadlers? Did a good job but they rushed his career he was a half baked fighter when he won the title and could’ve been even more.