Tyson-Dempsey comparison

It doesn't actually mean he said it anyway. You shouldn't believe everything you read in the newspapers. He might have said it. He might not have said it. It's such a generic quote it could easily be made up.
What is undeniable is that he never faced a black challenger.
Tyson never faced a white one, incidentally.

 

So, contemporary sources are now not facts? And all this just to sustain some rosy-hued myth?

Numerous black newspaper at the times correctly label what you casually refer to as "cultural bias' as cowardice. And that is what it was.

 

White contenders in Tyson's time weren't as good at the black contenders in Dempsey's time. That is undeniable.

 

Damiani was probably the best.

 

Black newspapers would have been in favour of Dempsey breaking the colour line to face Wills, obviously.
Calling him a coward they hoped to provoke him into facing Wills.

 

I don't think Tyson would have needed to show fighting heart against any of Dempsey's opponents.

 

No sh*t.

 

I was referring more to Jeffries.

Do you supposed a more compliant and reverential tone was appropriate?

 

As demonstrated when, though? I put it to you that Tyson showed tremendous heart in his fights with Douglas, Holyfield 1, Lewis and , to a lesser degree, Ruddock 2. I don't really know Dempsey's career so would be interested to be pointed in the direction of similar displays of heart. I would imagine that the paucity of title defences over the length of his reign would suggest that it was Dempsey's heart, rather then Tyson's. that wasn't really in boxing.

 

Just scoured my alphabet title rankings from the late 80's and Damiani was the head of the pack. Very small pack.

 

American society at that time would not allow a black to fight a white hwt champion. It was their worst fear, the beginnings of a loss of power over the black race. If the black fighter should win the black race could then claim physical superiority over the white race. So many implications both in terms of political power as well as sexual domination over their white women. THIS is what prevented Jeffries from fighting a black contender. Jeffries announcement regarding the color line was superficial as compared with the deep cultural implications it represented. Jeffries had no issues fighting a black man as he fought 25% of his bouts against them!

 

First if you talk with Tysons trainers they will tell you that Tyson had lots of dog in him.

Secondly it's quite apparent that in bouts where he was losing Tyson starts shutting down, stops fighting effectively and just does not know what to do. This us apparent during all of his losses.

Heart and will to win is an intrinsic part of a fighters character. It does not change over time. Either you have it or you don't. Tyson as an amateur was a head case. Always unsure of himself. Crying hysterically prior to major bouts. Huge character flaws that, surprise, rear themselves when he was severely pressed as a pro.

Actually this is all well know and is why Tyson is not rated higher then he is all time.

 

I have always felt that Tyson had the better physical equipment, but that Dempsey refined the finisher methodology to a higher art form, and was better psychologically.

Tyson might not have needed to show heart against some of Dempsey’s victims, but he might not have done as well against them either!

 

Fair points although when he lost to Douglas and Holyfield, Tyson did keep trying. He almost kayoed Buster despite having one eye closed. And he was still fighting in the tenth against Evander, throwing the big right hand that made Evander's counter so effective.

And when you quote Tyson as an amateur being a head case, for 'amateur' substitute the word 'teenager'. It puts a different hue on everything. Tyson turned pro at 18, an age when Lewis still had two Olympics in him.

Anyway, this could go back and forth as I don't think you're about to change your mind so we'll agree to disagree but I'd still be interested to see those examples of when Dempsey showed amazing heart and will to win. If you say Firpo, I'm coming straight back with McNeeley.

 

Examples of Dempsey will to win?

Knocked down and then out of the ring but instead of folding changed his attack strategy and came back to KO Firpo.

Being beaten up for five rounds against leading contender Sharkey and coming on with a blistering body attack to win by KO in 7 rounds.

There are other examples. No one doubts Dempsey heart and will to win. Tysons will to win however is questioned by many including his former trainers. It's why he is not rated higher all time.